Ian Bremmer

  • Aired:  05/13/10
  •  | Views: 62,793

Ian Bremmer believes that America has to defend its free market principles to succeed in the world economy. (7:30)

>> Jon: WELCOME BACK.

MY GUESTS TONIGHT, A

JOURNALIST AND AN AUTHOR

WHOSE NEW BOOK IS CALLED THE

END OF THE FREE MARKET, WHO

WINS THE WAR BETWEEN STATES

AND CORPORATIONS.

PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO THE

PROGRAM IAN BREMMER.

(APPLAUSE)

HELLO, SIR.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THE END OF THE FREE MARKET.

I'LL TELL YOU, YOU ARE A

HELL OF A WRITER.

THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX,

DIFFICULT SUBJECT, TACKLED

BEAUTIFULLY.

I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE I

UNDERSTOOD SOMEWHAT THE NEW

THREAT.

YOUR FEELING IS THE BIG

THREAT TO OUR ECONOMY MAY

NOT EVEN BE WALL STREET'S

NEWSPAPERS, REGULATIONS AND

THINGS EVEN THOUGH THEY

NEED-- IT'S STATE

CAPITALISTS OR STATEEST

CAPITALISM.

WHAT'S THAT.

>> WE'RE FOCUSING A LOT

RIGHT NOW ON GOLDMAN, WE ARE

FOCUSING ON THE-- IT FEELS

GOOD.

>> Jon: IT FEELS VERY, VERY

GOOD.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

BUT THE LAST 18 MONTHS, THE

WORLD HAS CHANGED FASTER

THAN AT ANY POINT SINCE THE

END OF WORLD WAR II.

>> RIGHT.

>> WE USED TO BE IN A

SITUATION WHERE IT WAS THE

G-7 WORLD AND YOU HAD STATES

THAT SUPPORTED FREE MARKETS.

SOMETIMES MORE REGULATED.

SOMETIMES LESS.

BUT NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT AN

ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE

WORLD'S SECOND LARGEST

ECONOMY AND THE FASTEST

GROWING OUT OF THE RECESSION

IS ONE WHERE THE STATE

CONTROLS THE ECONOMY.

THE LARGEST PLAYER.

THERE'S NO RULE OF LAW.

>> Jon: WE'RE TALKING CHINA.

>> I'M TALKING CHINA.

SO AS A CONSEQUENCE, YOU

DON'T HAVE A FREE MARKET ANY

MORE.

YOU HAVE SOME FREE MARKET

STATES THAT AREN'T DOING SO

WELL.

AND YOU HAVE SOME STATE

CAPITAL STATES.

AND BY THE WAY, YOU GO TO

CHINA AND YOU ASK THE

AVERAGE CHINESE WHAT THEY

THINK ABOUT THEIR GOVERNMENT,

THEY HAVE A LOT BETTER VIEW

OF THIS THAN THE AVERAGE

AMERICAN DOES OF THE PERSON

GOVERNMENT, FOR ITS-- LORD

KNOWS GREEKS AND JAPANESE.

>> Jon: IT'S CRAZY, CHINA,

THE ONE COUNTRY THAT TRULY

LOVES TEA, NO TEA PARTY,

REALLY, YOU KNOW.

THEY LOVE THEIR GOVERNMENT.

HERE, YOU KNOW, IT STRIKES

ME AS-- WHAT THESE AUTHOR

AUTHOR-- AUTHORITY TATING

GOVERNMENTS HAVE DONE, CHINA

AND RUSSIA HAVE POWERED THE

CAPITALISM TO QUELL

ALMOST-- IT IS LIKE A HEDGE

AGAINST REVOLT.

THEY'RE USING OUR SYSTEM TO

THEIR ADVANTAGE BUT NOT

USING THE DOWNSIDE OF OUR

SYSTEM, THE VOLATILITY THAT

THEY DON'T FACE THAT.

IT SEEMS.

>> I DIDN'T SEE A GLOBAL

FINANCIAL CRISIS.

I SAW A FINANCIAL CRISIS IN

THE WEST.

CHINESE DIDN'T HAVE THE

FINANCIAL CRISIS.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE BANKS.

THEY CONTROLLED THEIR BANKS.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE THOSE SORTS

OF EXPOSURE.

THEY HAD A RECESSION.

>> Jon: YOU ARE NOT

SUGGESTING WE MOVE TIE MORE

AUTHOR TEARIAN ECONOMY WHERE

THE STATE HAS MORE CONTROL

OF IT, YOU BELIEVE THAT WE

HAVE TO MAKE THE FREE MARKET

MORE APPEALING.

>> I THINK WE DO.

I THINK THERE'S NO QUESTION.

BUT I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO

RECOGNIZE THAT THE WORLD

ECONOMY IS NOT WHAT IT WAS.

AND OUR MULTINATIONAL

CORPORATIONS ARE TRYING TO

GET INTO THE STATUS

ECONOMIES AND A LOT WILL GET

GOOGLED OUT.

IF YOU GET A SITUATION WHERE

YOU HAVE A WAR-- .

>> Jon: CAN GOOGLE DO THAT

NOW?

CAN THEY GOOGLE YOU OUT.

IS THERE A BUTTON ON GOOGLE

WHERE YOU CAN GET GOOGLED

OUT.

>> THIS IS A PASSIVE VERB.

THEY GOT GOOGLED.

>> Jon: I DON'T WANT TO GET

GOOGLED OUT.

>> I DON'T BLAME YOU.

PEOPLE WILL COME SEARCHING

FOR YOU.

>> Jon: THE DIFFICULTY IS,

IT SEEMS LIKE

VOLATILE-- VOLATILITY.

THE PROBLEM SEEMS TO BE, AND

MAYBE IT'S-- I'M CONFUSING

THE DERIFF

TOUGHER-- DERIVATIVE MARKET

WITH SOMETHING BUT WE HAVE

THIS UNREGULATED

REDIFFICULT-- DERIVATIVE

MARKET THAT IS

LARGELY-- LARGER MONETARILY

THAN ECONOMY OF ALL 9 MONEY

IN THE WORLD.

THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT

COULD BE REAL.

ISN'T IT LIKE $700 TRILLION

IN THIS DERIVATIVE MARKET.

>> WHEN ARE YOU TAKING BETS

WITH NO UNDERLIING ASSETS

YOU ARE CREATING CASINO,

THAT IS IN THE A REGULATED

FREE MARKET.

THAT IS AN UNREGULATED FREE

MARKET.

THE REASON I NAMED THE BOOK

THIS, I HAD THIS MEETING

WITH ABOUT A YEAR AGO WITH

THE VICE MINISTER OF FOREIGN

AFFAIRS OF CHINA.

TURNED OUT TO BE THE GUY

THAT OBAMA WAS FORCED TO

MEET WITH WHEN-- DIDN'T SHOW

UP AT COPENHAGEN.

KIND OF INTERESTING RZ.

>> Jon: YOU LIKED THIS GUY,

YOU THOUGHT HE WAS WARM AND

ENGAGING.

>> HE IS A VERY SMART GUY,

IMPRESSIVE GUY.

BUT THE FIRST THING HE ASKED

ME IS HE SAID, SO IAN, NOW

THAT THE FREE MARKET HAS

FAILED, WHAT DO YOU THINK

THE ROLE OF THE STATE AND

THE ECONOMY SHOULD BE.

THE FREE MARKET HASN'T

FAILED.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST

TEN YEARS IS NOT THE FAILURE

OF FREE MARKET.

AND WHAT OBAMA IS DOING

RIGHT NOW IS NOT SOCIALISM.

THERE WAS NO REFEREE.

THERE WERE NO REGULATORS

PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT WAS

ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON WALL

STREET.

THAT'S NOT A FREE MARKET

SYSTEM.

AND AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT, 'S

HAVING A HARD TIME RIGHT NOW

DEFENDING OUR FREE MARKET

PRINCIPLESS.

OBAMA IS TO THE GOING OUT

THERE SAYING I SUPPORT THE

FREE MARKET.

HE IS SAYING I DON'T WANT TO

RUN GM THAT IS TOO HARD.

I HAVE TOO MANY OTHER THINGS

TO DO.

IT IS NOT POLITICALLY

DEFENSIBLE TODAY TO GO OUT

AND SUPPORT FREE MARKETS

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THAT

IS WHAT MADE THIS COUNTRY

GREAT.

>> Jon: ARE WE HAVING THE

WRONG CONVERSATION IN THE

COUNTRY.

BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION

APPEARS TO BE ON ONE SIDE WE

ARE BECOMING A SOCIALIST

COUNTRY, WHICH I THINK HAS

DEFINED THE DEFINITION OF

SOCIALISM DOWN TO AN EXTENT

THAT I DON'T EVEN THINK IT'S

RECOGNIZABLE AS SOCIALISM F

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING IN

THIS COUNTRY.

IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE STILL

DOING THE SAME REGULATED

FREE MARKET THING WITH A

COUPLE OF WEIRD TWEAKS DUE

TO A CATASTROPHE.

BUT THE CONVERSATION APPEARS

TO BE BETWEEN THAT AND MORE

REFORM IN OTHER AREAS THAT

DON'T SEEM TO BE TAKING HOLD

SO WHAT CONVERSATION

CONVERSATION-- CONVERSATION

SHOULD WE BE HAVING ON THE

ECONOMIC FRONT?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO

RECOGNIZE THAT THE WAY

AMERICA PROCEEDS IS FOR US

TO BE PERCEIVED AS

INDISFENCE-- INDISPENSABLE.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO WANT TO

INVEST HERE.

WE NEED OUR COMPANIES TO BE

INDISPENSABLE, OUR ECONOMY

TO BE PERCEIVED AS TOO BIG

TO FAIL, TO THE JUST

CITIGROUP OR B OF A, BUT THE

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

>> Jon: PERCEIVED AS OR AS.

>> I THINK WE ARE.

WE ARE THE WORLD'S LARGEST

ECONOMY.

WE HAVE THE BEST EDUCATIONAL

INSTITUTIONS.

WE HAVE THE ONLY BLUE WATER

NAVY THAT CAN ACTUALLY

DEFEND, YOU KNOW, SORT OF

SEA LANES AND THE REST.

WE SPEND MORE MONEY ON R & D

BUT WE HAVE THE CHINESE

SAYING THE UNITED STATES

SHOULD NOT BE THE RESERVE

CENTS EAR IT IS NOT SAFE.

EVERYONE WANTS TO BUY GOLD

AND IT IS GOING THROUGH THE

ROOF.

>> Jon: DON'T YOU THINK

CHINA IS BEING DISINGENUOUS,

OTHERWISE WOULDN'T THEY BE

DUFERPING, THEY ARE THE

LARGEST HOLDER IN THE

UNIVERSAL.

>> I THINK THEY ARE ONLY

BEING SOMEWHAT DISINGENUOUS.

WHEN YOU SEE THEM TRYING TO

DIVERSIFY THEIR EXPORTS AWAY

FROM THE WEST BECAUSE THE

U.S. CAN'T BUY THE CRAP THEY

USED TO, NEITHER CAN THE

EUROPE MEANS OR THE JAPANESE,

AND THEY ARE TRYING TO

BUILDOUT THEIR OWN DOMESTIC

CONSUMPTION AS FAST AS THEY

CAN.

>> Jon: THEY ARE TRYING TO

CREATE A MIDDLE CLASS THAT

WILL BUY THE CRAP THAT WE

USED TO BUY BECAUSE WE DON'T

WANT TO BUY IT ANY MORE

BECAUSE WE WILL GET FROM

SOME OTHER IMPOV ERREDISHED

COUNTRY.

LET'S GO BACK TO

MERCANTILISM.

>> A LONG TIME AGO.

>> Jon: IS DO YOU BELIEVE

THAT THIS IS CONVERSATION

THAT WILL BEGIN TO BE HAVE,

THAT RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE IN

THE GOVERNMENT AND ON

TELEVISION WILL START TO

HAVE THE REAL CONVERSATION

ABOUT PROMOTING THE KIND OF

REGULATED FREE MARKET

CAPITALISM THAT WE NEED TO

MAKE THESE CHANGES.

>> THEY ARE STARTING TO DO

IT IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW

BECAUSE IT HAS GOTTEN TO THE

CRISIS POINT.

UNITED STATES WE DON'T FEEL

THAT LEVEL CRACE IS.

WE SPENT ALMOST A YEAR

DEALING WITH HEALTH CARE.

I THINK IS AN IMPROVEMENT.

BUT DID WE REALLY HAVE THE

LUXURY OF SPENDING THAT YEAR

WITH THIS GOVERNMENT ON

HEALTH CARE?

WE DID NOT.

THAT WAS THE WRONG PRIORITY.

AND NOW WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE

OF AN ELECTION.

AND SO LET'S PILE ON GOLDMAN

SACHS.

AGAIN GREAT TV.

BUT.

>> Jon: WE NEED TO LOOK

AHEAD.

WE DO NEED TO LOOK AHEAD.

>> Jon: BUT AGAIN IN ALL

FAIRNESS, GREAT TV.

>> GREAT TV.

>> Jon: YOU REALLY HAVE

TO-- IT IS SO WELL DONE, AND

SO UNDERSTANDABLE AND WELL

LAID OUT I REALLY THANK YOU.

THE END OF THE FREE MARKET,

ON THE BOOK SHELVES MAY

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