Exclusive - William D. Cohan Extended Interview Pt. 2

  • Aired:  04/29/14
  •  | Views: 12,888

William D. Cohan explores the genesis of misconduct and the culture of entitlement surrounding elite universities and privileged student athletes. (5:35)

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESESORT OF LARGE INSTITUTIONS, DUKE

BEING ONE OF THEM, THAT I GUESSMADE THE DECISION YEARS AGO TO

BECOME AN ATHLETIC POWERHOUSE ASWELL AS ACADEMIC POWERHOUSE.

AND, DO YOU THINK THAT DECISIONIN SOME WAYS CLOUDED THEIR MORAL

JUDGMENT AND HAS LED TO ANATMOSPHERE ON A CAMPUS THAT IS,

YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYSOPPRESSIVE IN THAT WAY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN THERE'S NOQUESTION THAT THE -- IF I MAY

USE THE PHRASE -- THE DNAOF THIS INCIDENT BEGAN,

WELL BEFORE THIS WHEN THEYDECIDED TO TRY TO COMPETE BOTH,

YOU KNOW, SUPREMELYINTELLECTUALLY BEING, YOU KNOW,

IN THE TOP FIVE UNIVERSITIES INTHE COUNTRY AND --

INTELLECTUALLY, ACADEMICALLY --AND ALSO TO TRY AND COMPETE

ATHLETICALLY. I MEAN, REALLYONLY STANDFORD AND DUKE AND TO

BE CHARITABLE NORTHWESTERNAS WELL TRIED THIS.

>> Jon: LOOK YOU YOU BEINGCHARITABLE TO NORTHWESTERN.

WHERE DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL?

>> I WENT TO DUKE UNIVERSITY.

>> Jon: YEAH, I KNOW,THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.

THEY SET OFF A WHOLE FEUD.

>> THEY ARE TRYING TO UNIONIZENOW FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL THE

DIVISION ONE ATHLETES.

>> Jon: BUT EVEN THAT, DOESN'TTHAT STAND TO REASON, THOUGH,

THAT IN SOME WAYS COUNTEREVIDENCE TO THE PREMISE THAT

THEY GET EVERYTHING THEYWANT, THAT THEY ARE PUT

ON THE A PEDESTAL. YET YOU HAVEA LOT OF YOUNG KIDS COMING OUT

OF FAMILIES WHERE THEY HAVE VERYLITTLE AND THE NCAA IS IN

SOME WAYS EXPLOITING THEIRLABOR OR THEIR FINANCIAL GAIN.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Jon: SO, IT'S A REALLYCOMPLEX TAPESTRY.

>> RIGHT, AND DUKE, OF COURSE,THESE LACROSSE PLAYERS THERE WAS

INCIDENT AFTER INCIDENT AFTERINCIDENT AS I MENTION IN THE

BOOK.

AND SO, THEY MAKE UP LIKE 1% OFTHE STUDENT POPULATION.

THIS TEAM OF 47.

AND, SOMETHING LIKE 50% OF THEDISORDERLY CONDUCT CHARGES, THE

DRUNKEN, UNDERAGE DRINKINGCHARGES, THE PUBLIC URINATION

CHARGES, YES, INDEED.

>> Jon: WHAT IF THEY HAD A LIKEG.P.A. FOR PUBLIC URINATION?

>> I THINK THE LACROSSE PLAYERSWOULD DO WELL. BY THE WAY,

THEY ALL GRADUATE. THEY'REREALLY GOOD STUDENTS. AND THE

INTERESTING THING IS, THERE'SNOT LIKE, THERE ARE THREE

PROFESSIONAL LACROSSE LEAGUESBUT THERE'S NOT LIKE A BIT --

>> Jon: NO, IT'S NOT A MONEYSPORT.

>> IT'S NOT A MONEY SPORT. NO,IN FACT THEY WANT TO GO TO WALL

STREET. THAT'S THEIR END GAME.AND, IN FACT, THE PROMISE IS,

BELIEVE IT OR NOT. YES, YOUCAN'T MAKE THIS UP,

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS UP, THEPROMISE IS YOU COME AND PLAY

LACROSSE AT DUKE AND YOU'LL GETA JOB ON WLL STREET. AND BY

THE WAY, THAT DOES HAPPEN. ANDONE OF -- A LOT -- AND ONE OF

THE GUYS RYAN MCFADDEN WHO WROTETHE INFAMOUS EMAIL THAT WAS --

>> Jon: RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> HE WANTED TO GO TO WALLSTREET, AND HE CAN'T. YOU KNOW,

HE HAD TO CHANGE HIS NAME ANDHE WORKS, YOU KNOW FOR A BUILDER

NOW. YOU KNOW, SO HIS DREAMS -->> Jon: RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT,

YOU SAY THAT LIKE, THAT GUYWORKS FOR A BUILDER.

[ LAUGHTER ]IT FEELS LIKE WHAT CAN BE DONE

ABOUT THIS IF IT CAN'T BE DONEABOUT THE -- IF THIS IS A

MICROCOSM, THIS SEEMS EVEN MOREPROVINCIAL AND NARROW AND MORE

DIFFICULT TO PENETRATE, THISIDEA OF PRIVILEGE IN THESE

INSTITUTIONS THAN IT IS EVENIN SOCIETY AT LARGE.

AND WE SEEM INCAPABLE WITHDEALING WITH IT IN SOCIETY AT

LARGE.

>> I MEAN, THIS IS TRULY ANEPIDEMIC. IT'S BROUGHT ON,

I THINK, IN LARGE PART BECAUSETHE DRINKING AGE IS 21.

SO THAT FORCES ADMINISTRATORSAT EVERY CAMPUS ACROSS THE

COUNTRY TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY.

I MEAN, EVERYBODY KNOWS UNDERAGEDRINKING IS GOING ON.

I MEAN, UNDERAGE DRINKING ISGOING ON IN HIGH SCHOOLS, RIGHT?

SO, THE FACT THAT THE DRINKINGAGE IS 21 MEANS THAT ALL THIS

PARTYING IS GOING ON.

ABOUT 50% OF PEOPLE WILL ADMITTO BINGE DRINKING NOW. SO THAT

MEANS THEY ARE DRINKING A LOT,QUICKLY. I BELIEVE WE HAVE

A HOOK UP CULTURE NOW. YOU KNOWPEOPLE SAY --

>> BUT DO YOU BELIEVETHAT -- THIS HAS

CHANGED DRAMATICALLYFROM A BATTLE OF INEQUALITY TO A

MORE, YOU KNOW WE'RE NOTPERMISSIVE ENOUGH IN TERMS OF

ALCOHOL.

YOU KNOW THAT -- I DON'T THINKLOWERING THE DRINKING AGE

NECESSARILY CURES INCOMEINEQUALITY.

>> NO, PROBABLY NOT.

>> Jon: YOU KNOW WHAT I'MSAYING.

>> BUT IT DOES LEAD TO BADBEHAVIOR ON CAMPUS. WHICH LEADS

TO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'SWHY PRESIDENT OBAMA CALLED

TOGETHER HIS SEXUAL ASSAULT TASKFORCE AND THEY ISSUED

ONE OF THEIR REPORTS TODAY, IT'SON THE FRONT PAGE.

>> Jon: BUT WHY DON'T WE JUSTTEACH YOUNG MEN OR JUST GET

BETTER AT TEACHING YOUNG MENTHAT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE --

>> YOU CAN -->> Jon: WHY DON'T YOU JUST

(bleep) CONTROL YOURSELF? LIKETHAT, SEE, HERE'S WHAT I DON'T

LIKE ABOUT IT BECAUSE WHAT ITULTIMATELY DOES --

>> GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.>> NO, BUT WHAT IT ULTIMATELY

ENDS UP DOING IS IT PLACES THERESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS BEHAVIOR

AND THESE ACTIONS ON THINGSOUTSIDE OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

IT'S ALCOHOL OR IT'S SOMEHOW THEWOMAN'S FAULT.

IT REMINDS ME OF CULTURES THATSUGGEST WOMEN MUST COVER

THEMSELVES BECAUSE IF MEN SEEIT OH THEY WIL HAVE TO HAVE IT

BECAUSE IT'S NOT THEIRFAULT IT'S YOURS.

>> YOU ARE BASICALLY TALKINGABOUT TAKING PERSONAL

RESPONSIBILITY.

>> Jon: I THINK THAT'SPROBABLY WHAT I'M SAYING.

>> I THINK THAT'S A FABULOUSIDEA.

>> Jon: DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S AFABULOUS IDEA?

>> I THINK THAT IS WHAT IT'S ALLABOUT.

AND, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT ISAT PLAY HERE.

WHEN YOU HAVE A SENSE OFENTITLEMENT, OF INVULNERABILITY

YOU BEGIN TO LOSE ANY SENSE OFKIND OF A MORAL CODE.

WOULD YOU SUGGEST THAT -- THEYALL CAN'T BE BAD PEOPLE.

>> NO, I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEMARE BAD PEOPLE.

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