Hamid Al-Bayati

  • Aired:  06/19/14
  •  | Views: 16,361

"From Dictatorship to Democracy" author Hamid Al-Bayati discusses how Islamic extremists in Iraq are attempting to foment war and spark sectarian violence. (6:33)

>> Jon: MY GUST TONIGHT WASTHE PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE OF

IRAQ TO THE UNITED NATIONS FROM2006 TO 2013.

PLEASE WELCOME HAMID AL-BAYATI.

SIR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WELL, THANK YOU MUCH FOR JOININGUS.

WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUBEING HERE BECAUSE ON AMERICAN

TELEVISION, THERE ARE A LOT OFTALKING HEADS SAYING, "WHAT'S

GOING ON IN IRAQ?"BUT WE DON'T... BOY, I DON'T

KNOW HOW TO PUT THIS, KNOW THATMUCH ABOUT IT.

[LAUGHTER]YOU PERHAPS MIGHT KNOW MORE.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?

WHAT'S GOING ON THERE RIGHT NOW?

>> JON, DEFINITELY I KNOW MORETHAN MOST OF THE AMERICANS.

[LAUGHTER]>> Jon: KIND OF GOES WITHOUT

SAYING.

I FIGURED THAT.

ALL RIGHT.

SO HIT ME.

HIT ME.

WHAT HAPPENED?

>> THE IRAQ I WAS BORN IN ANDGROWN UP IN IS AN IRAQ OF UNITY.

THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LOVE TOLIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY.

MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, THEYLIVED FOR CENTURIES.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE MINORITIES,FAR EXTREMISTS, AND

UNFORTUNATELY THEY MAKE HIGHNOISES, LOUDER NOISES, AND THE

MEDIA PICK UP THESE NOISES ANDMAKE IT BIGGER. NOW, THERE'S THE

FACT THAT THERE IS SPILLOVER FROM INSTABILITY IN SYRIA.

ISIS IS AL QAEDA IN IRAQ ANDSYRIA IN THE BEGINNING.

THEN AL QAEDA CONSIDERED THEMTOO EXTREME AND THEY --

>> Jon: AL QAEDA CONSIDERS THISISIS GROUP...

>> TOO EXTREME FOR THEM.

IMAGINE, YOU KNOW?

>> JON: SO AL QAEDA, THE GROUPRESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11, THEY SEE

THESE GUYS AND THEY GO, NO, ICAN'T WORK WITH THEM.

[LAUGHTER]>> EXACTLY.

THEY'RE TOO MUCH.

SO NOW WE ARE FACING THIS GROUPWHO ARE BRUTAL.

THE UNITED NATIONS REPORTS THATTHEY ARE COMMITTING WAR CRIMES.

THEY EXECUTE THOUSANDS OFPEOPLE, INCLUDING CIVILIANS, IN

MOSUL AND OTHER AREAS.

>> Jon: BUT LET ME ASK YOU,SO, THE REPORTS THAT WE GET IS,

SO WE LEAVE IRAQ.

EVERYBODY SAYS IRAQ IS READY.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OVER THEGOVERNANCE AND SECURITY OF THIS

NATION.

YOU WERE THERE DURING THAT TIME.

YOU FELT GOOD ABOUT THATARRANGEMENT.

EVERYBODY FELT GOOD.

THESE GUYS ROLL IN, AND THEIRAQI ARMY SEEMS TO DISPERSE,

AND THEY TAKE OVER THIS AREA INMOSUL.

AND THE LOCAL PEOPLE, BECAUSE ITSEEMS LIKE THEY'VE NOW JOINED UP

WITH THE ORIGINAL BA'ATHISTSFROM SADDAM'S OLD GROUP, AND

THEY SEEM TO BE ALLIED NOW.

IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?

>> YES, NOT ONLY ISIS.

ISIS IS 5,000 TO 6,000PERSONNEL.

>> Jon: 5,000 TO 6,000.

>> ONLY, ONLY.

>> Jon: SERIOUSLY, THAT'S IT?

>> YEAH. THE HIGHEST ESTIMATIONIS 10,000, HOWEVER, THE BA'ATH

PARTY IS HEADED OR LED BY IZZATAL-DOURI WHO WAS VICE PRESIDENT

FOR SADDAM. THE INSURGENCY GROUPLIKE NAQSHABANDI GROUP

AND OTHER GROUPS ARE JOINING.

>> Jon: SO THIS IS SIMILAR TOWHAT HAD OCCURRED IN THE ANBAR

PROVINCE IN 2006?

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING,THE IRAQI ARMY WAS NOT WELL

EQUIPPED.

WE ASKED FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, JETFIGHTERS.

WE DIDN'T RECEIVE THEM YET.

THE CONGRESS APPROVED F-16sSINCE MANY YEARS.

WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED THEM. NOW WEASKED,

THIS IS WHY THE IRAQI GOVERNMENTOFFICIALLY REQUESTED AN AIR

STRIKE BY AMERICAN FORCES.

NOW, PRESIDENT OBAMA ANNOUNCEDTODAY THAT THEY COULD TAKE

CERTAIN TARGETS, PRECISE ATTACKSWHENEVER THEY FEEL IT'S

IMPORTANT. I THINKIT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE

GATHER TOGETHER TO FIGHTTHIS EXTREME GROUP.

>> Jon: SO YOU WOULD LIKE US TOJOIN THE FIGHT?

>> I WOULD SAY THIS IS THE IRAQIGOVERNMENT REQUEST.

>> Jon: THE IRAQI GOVERNMENTWOULD LIKE US TO JOIN THE FIGHT?

>> YES, THEY REQUEST AMERICANAIR STRIKES, NOT JUST IN TROOPS,

GROUND TROOPS, THAT'S ADIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONLY

AMERICANS AND DRONES ANDYEMEN AND PAKISTAN AND OTHER

AREAS.

>> Jon: THIS IS WHAT, YOU WOULDLIKE OUR DRONE PROGRAM.

WE HAVE MANY DIFFERENT PACKAGES.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE? [LAUGHTER]

SO LET ME SEE, LET ME GET YOURORDER RIGHT.

>> OKAY.

OKAY.

>> Jon: THE AMERICANS WOULD...

I FEEL LIKE WE'RE IN SORT OF AVERY STRANGE POSITION IN THAT WE

DID DESTABILIZE YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Jon: YOU'RE WELCOME.

[LAUGHTER]I THINK AMERICANS FEEL LIKE WE

HAD SPENT AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY,A LOT OF BLOOD FOR REASONS THAT,

YOU KNOW, WE CAN FIGHT ABOUTWHETHER OR NOT IT WAS RIGHT TO

GO IN OR NOT, BUT THAT MAYBE WEDO HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO

THE IRAQI PEOPLE AFTER DOINGTHAT, BUT OUR ABILITY TO

WITHSTAND SORT OF BEING THEFABRIC THAT HOLDS THE COUNTRY

TOGETHER FROM THESE SECTARIANVIOLENCE ISSUES AND THESE

EXTREMIST VIOLENCE ISSUES, ISNOT A TENABLE POSITION FOR US TO

BE IN.

>> WELL, THERE IS AN IMPORTANTFACTOR THAT ABU MUSAB

AL-ZARQAWI. AND BY THE WAY...

>> ZARQAWI WAS THE OLD LEADEROF THIS GROUP.

THE JORDANIAN THAT WAS KILLED AWHILE AGO.

>> YES.

ISIS WAS ORIGINALLY PART OF THEZARQAWI GROUP WHO WAS SEPARATE

FROM AL QAEDA.

ZARQAWI WROTE A LETTER TO OSAMABIN LADEN WHEN HE ANNOUNCED

ALLEGIANCE TO HIM, SAYING THATIF THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT GETS

STRONGER AND CONTROL THESITUATION, THERE WILL BE NO

OPTION BUT TO PACK AND LEAVEAS WE DID IN AFGHANISTAN.

THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO BRINGSECTARIAN WAR BETWEEN SUNNIS AND

SHIA. THIS IS WHY...

>> Jon: SO THEY'RE FOMENTINGTHIS WAR.

THEY WANT THIS LARGER SECTARIANWAR.

>> YES. ABU BAKR AL-BAGHDADIWHOSE REAL NAME IS IBRAHIM AWWAD

AL-BADRI, HE TRIED TO PLAY THATSECTARIAN CARD.

>> Jon: HE WANTS TO FOMENT THISWAR.

WELL, LET'S DO THIS. LET'S TAKEBREAK.

CAN YOU STICK AROUND FAR LITTLEBIT?

>> YES. BECAUSE WHAT I WANT TOTALK ABOUT

WHEN WE COME BACK IS, WOULDHE BE ABLE TO ENFLAME

THAT SECTARIAN WAR IFTHE AL-MALIKI GOVERNMENT HAD

BEEN MORE OPEN TO POWER SHARINGWITH THE SUNNI MINORITY AND HAS

THAT PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS.

SO WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LLTALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

WE'LL HAVE MORE WITH HAMIDAL-BAYATI RIGHT AFTER THIS.

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