Exclusive - Hillary Clinton Extended Interview Pt. 2

  • Aired:  07/15/14
  •  | Views: 90,839

Hillary Clinton discusses how global diplomacy has changed in recent years, particularly with the advent of technological advances. (8:40)

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]>> Jon: WE'RE BACK.

WE'RE TALKING WITH HILLARYCLINTON.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEMSWE FACE.

SO WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WEHAVE THESE STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS.

>> RIGHT.

>> Jon: YOU'VE SEEN IT WHEN YOUWERE IN THE OVAL OFFICE AS FIRST

LADY.

YOU'VE SEEN IT AS SENATOR IN THELEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

>> UH-HUH, UH-HUH.

>> Jon: YOU WERE IN THECABINET.

>> YEP.

>> Jon: HAS THE BUREAUCRACY OFGOVERNMENT BECOME UNMANAGEABLE

TO THE POINT WHERE IT IS NOLONGER ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY RAISE

THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE PEOPLETHAT IT IS TRYING TO DO SO?

>> WELL, JON, I THINK IT'S ACOMBINATION OF BOTH A CONGRESS

THAT IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONINGEFFECTIVELY ON BEHALF OF THE

VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, BUTINSTEAD VERY FOCUSED ON TAKING

CARE OF SPECIAL INTERESTS ANDTHOSE WHO THEY THINK ARE THEIR

CONSTITUENTS, OFTEN NOT THEIRVOTERS, AND A VERY DIFFICULT

SITUATION IN OUR EXECUTIVEBRANCH BECAUSE I THINK IF

PRESIDENT OBAMA WERE HERE, HE'DBE FIRST TO SAY IT HAS NOT KEPT

UP WITH THE TIMES.

WE DON'T HAVE THE KIND OFAGILITY AND FLEXIBILITY AND

TECHNOLOGY.

WHEN I GOT TO THE STATEDEPARTMENT, WE DIDN'T EVEN ISSUE

SMARTPHONES TO DIPLOMATS.

I MEAN, BASICALLY THEY WERESUPPOSED TO BE DOING WHAT THEY

HAD DONE FOR 100 YEARS, ANDTHOSE DAYS WERE LONG OVER.

AND, IT TOOK A LOT OF EFFORT TOGET PEOPLE UP TO SPEED AND THEN

TO USE TECHNOLOGY TO PROMOTEAMERICAN VALUES AND AMERICAN

INTERESTS.

SO THE BUREAUCRACY MOVES SLOWLY.

THE CONGRESS IS GRIDLOCKED.

SO WE HAVE A CRISIS IN OURDEMOCRACY.

AND, WHAT I SAW GOING TO 112COUNTRIES IS HOW IMPORTANT IT IS

THAT WE FUNCTION IN THE UNITEDSTATES BECAUSE PEOPLE LOOK TO

US.

OUR SYSTEM HAS BEEN THE BEACONFOR SO MANY YEARS, LIKE YOU WERE

TALKING ABOUT BEFORE, GUESS,WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO COME HERE

BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'LL BESAFE, THEY'LL HAVE AN

OPPORTUNITY, WEHAVE TO MANAGE IT.

THAT'S WHY WE NEED COMPREHENSIVEIMMIGRATION REFORM, WHICH IS

SOMETHING THAT CONGRESS SHOULDPASS.

>> Jon: BUT IS OUR EXPECTATION,OUR EXPECTATION OF OUR

PLACE IN THE WORLD, YOU KNOW,TECHNOLOGY AS WE BECOME

LESS AGILE, TECHNOLOGYHAS DEMOCRATIZED

POWER TO A LARGE EXTENT.

>> YES. THAT'S RIGHT.

>> YOU SEE VERY SMALL GROUPS WHOARE ABLE TO SOW A GREAT DEAL OF

DESTRUCTIVE FORCE, AND ISAMERICA, YOU KNOW, WE ARE A

LARGE IMPERIAL POWER.

AND HAVE, THE IDEA THAT WE CANEXERCISE THAT POWER IN THE SAME

MANNER AS WE SEE IN, YOU KNOW,WHAT IS OUR FOREIGN POLICY

ANYMORE?

>> YEAH, YEAH. WELL, THAT'SREALLY WHY THIS BOOK IS

SOMETHING THAT I PUT MY HEARTAND SOUL INTO, BECAUSE WE

CAN'T PRACTICE DIPLOMACYAND DEFINE OUR

FOREIGN POLICY AS LEADERSTALKING TO LEADERS ANYMORE.

BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE WAY THEWORLD WORKS.

EXACTLY AS YOU SAID.

PEOPLE ARE EMPOWERED FROM THEBOTTOM UP.

AND, WHAT I FOUND WHEN I BECAMESECRETARY OF STATE IS THAT SO

MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD,ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY

HAD NO MEMORY OF THE UNITEDSTATES LIBERATING EUROPE AND

ASIA, BEATING THE NAZIS,FIGHTING THE, YOU KNOW, COLD WAR

AND WINNING.

THAT WAS JUST ANCIENT HISTORY.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE SACRIFICESTHAT WE HAD MADE AND THE VALUES

THAT MOTIVATED US TO DO IT.>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> WE HAVE NOT BEEN TELLING OURSTORY VERY WELL.

WE DO HAVE A GREAT STORY.

WE ARE NOT PERFECT BY ANY MEANS,BUT WE HAVE A GREAT STORY ABOUT

HUMAN FREEDOM, HUMAN RIGHTS,HUMAN OPPORTUNITY, AND LET'S GET

BACK TO TELLING IT TO OURSELVESFIRST AND FOREMOST AND BELIEVING

IT ABOUT OURSELVES AND THENTAKING THAT AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BESTANDING FOR.

[APPLAUSE]>> Jon: BUT DOESN'T... DOESN'T,

IN SOME RESPECTS, DOESN'TOUR EXPERIENCE AND OUR

ACTIONS BELIE A LOTOF THAT STORY?

FOR INSTANCE, WE FOR A LONG TIMEIN THE MIDDLE EAST PROPPED UP

AUTOCATTIC REGIMES IN FAVOR OFSTABILITY BECAUSE WE LIKE THE,

WHAT'S IT, THE OILY OIL.

WE LIKE THAT.

SO THEN WE SWITCHED OVER TO SAYACTUALLY WHAT WILL GIVE US, KEEP

US SAFER IS DEMOCRACY.>> MMHMM.

>> Jon: AND SO, BUT THEN THEELECTIONS THAT WE ENCOURAGED IN

GAZA ELECTED HAMAS.

WE SAID, WELL, NOT THAT MUCHDEMOCRACY, YOU KNOW.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. RIGHT,RIGHT.

>> Jon: SO, SO WHEN WETALK ABOUT WE HAVE THIS

GREAT STORY OF FREEDOM ANDDEMOCRACY AND LIBERTY,

DO WE REALLY MEAN IT?

>> YES.

>> Jon: OR DO WE ONLY MEAN ITFOR, IF YOU ELECT SOMEONE THAT

WE LIKE AND LIKES US?

>> NO.

WE REALLY MEAN IT, BUT WE ALSOHAVE INTERESTS THAT DO MATTER,

SO, YES, ENERGY USED TO BE.

NOW WE'RE MORE INDEPENDENT, BUTWE STILL WORRY ABOUT OUR FRIENDS

AND OUR ALLIES.

OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OURPARTNERS AND OUR ALLIES IN

EUROPE AND IN ISRAEL AND ASIA,THOSE ARE COUNTRIES THAT WE HAVE

A SPECIAL CONCERN FOR, AND OURSECURITY.

SO DO WE DO BUSINESS WITH SOMEPRETTY UNSAVORY CHARACTERS

BECAUSE WE HAVECOUNTER-TERRORISM INTERESTS AND

SECURITY CONCERNS, ABSOLUTELY.>> Jon: SURE.

>> HOWEVER, I WOULD ARGUE, AND IDO IN THE BOOK, THAT IF YOU LOOK

AT THE WHOLE CONTEXT OFTHE UNITED STATES AND

YOU REALLY EXAMINE WHAT WE'VESTOOD FOR AND HOW WE'VE TRIED

TO MOVE THE WORLD TOWARDDEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM, DESPITE

THE FACT THAT SOMETIMES WE STAYWITH, YOU KNOW, AUTOCRATS LONGER

THAN WE SHOULD, IT IS ACOMPELLING STORY ABOUT WHO

WE ARE AND WHAT WE STAND FOR.EGYPT IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

YOU KNOW, WE WEREN'T THRILLEDWHEN THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD WAS

ELECTED, BUT WE SUPPORTED ITBECAUSE AS FAR AS WE COULD TELL

IT WAS A LEGITIMATE ELECTION.

WE WERE BLAMED BY EVERYBODY.

WE WERE BLAMED FOR SUPPORTING ALEGITIMATE ELECTION, NOT

DETERMINING WHO WOULD WIN, BUTTHEN SAYING, OKAY, IT WAS

LEGITIMATE.

WE WILL SUPPORT THAT REGIME.>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> THEN THEY GET OVERTURNED ANDWE SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU KNOW,

THIS IS NOT EXACTLY THE WAY TODO BUSINESS.

HOWEVER, WE SEE EGYPT NOW TRYINGTO BROKER A CEASEFIRE.

THAT'S VERY MUCH IN AMERICA'SINTEREST, AND THE CONCERNS OF

THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EASTWHO ARE CAUGHT UP IN THIS

ONGOING CONFLICT.

SO PART OF WHAT I TRIED TOEXPLAIN IS, OUR VALUES ARE

STRONG.

WE COMPLY WITH THEM, BUTOFTENTIMES WE DO HAVE TO ADD IN

AND BALANCE OUR INTERESTS ANDOUR SECURITY.

BUT EVERY TIME WE DO THAT, WEHAVE TO KEEP IN MIND WHAT WE

REALLY STAND FOR.

>> Jon: DO YOU, WOULD YOU THINK,AND THEN WE'LL, DO YOU HAVE,

CAN YOU GIVE US LIKE FIVEMINUTES ON THE WEB?

WE'LL JUST THROW IT UP...

>> SURE, ABSOLUTELY.

>> Jon: CAN WE EXPECT OTHERCOUNTRIES TO VIEW US WITH SUCH

NUANCE WHEN WE SO CLEARLY DON'TVIEW THEM WITH NUANCE AND WITH

THAT TYPE OF UNDERSTANDING?

>> THAT'S A REALLY GOODQUESTION, BECAUSE...

>> Jon: THAT'S ALL THE TIME WEHAVE.

[LAUGHTER]>> BECAUSE?

>> Jon: BECAUSE.

>> BECAUSE WE DID A MUCH BETTERJOB TELLING THE WORLD WHO WE

WERE BACK IN THE COLD WAR.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS A SIMPLER JOB,TO BE FAIR.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD THE SOVIETUNION.

WE HAD THE UNITED STATES.

WE HAD A BIG INFORMATION EFFORT.

WE SENT, WE SENT TALENT, WE SENTALL KINDS OF POETS AND NOVELISTS

AND ROCK STARS. I REMEMBERWHEN VACLAV HAVEL THE

GREAT DISSIDENT AND THE FIRSTPRESIDENT OF THE CZECH REPUBLIC

TOLD ME THAT LOU REED HAD BEENHIS INSPIRATION.

AMERICAN CULTURE, AMERICAN IDEASPERMEATED THE WORLD.

WELL, FAST FORWARD, THAT ENDEDAND WE KIND OF THOUGHT, OKAY,

FINE, END OF HISTORY, DEMOCRACYWON.

YOU KNOW THAT STORY.

AND IN FACT, WE WITHDREW FROMTHE INFORMATION ARENA.

AND LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENEDINITIALLY WITH UKRAINE.

RUSSIAN MEDIA WAS MUCH MOREEFFECTIVE IN SORT OF TELLING A

STORY: IT WASN'T TRUE, BUT THEYKEPT REPEATING IT OVER AND OVER

AGAIN.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO GET BACKTO A CONSENSUS IN OUR OWN

COUNTRY ABOUT WHO WE ARE ANDWHAT WE STAND FOR, HOPEFULLY

A BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS, LIKE ITUSED TO BE IN FOREIGN POLICY,

AND THEN GET OUT THERE AND, YOUKNOW, TELL THAT STORY,

RECOGNIZING... I WAS JUSTIN LONDON, BERLIN AND

PARIS ON MY BOOK TOUR. YOUKNOW, THE PEOPLE IN GERMANY

ARE NOT HAPPY WITH USOVER SPYING STUFF,

AS YOU MIGHT GUESS.

>> Jon: WHAT'S A LITTLESPYING? IT'S NOTHING.

>> YOU KNOW, BUT I SAID, LET'SLOOK AT THE WHOLE CONTEXT.

I MEAN, LET'S LOOK ATWHAT THE UNITED STATES

HAS MEANT TO GERMANY. WE HAVE TOWORK OUT THESE OTHER ISSUES,

AND BELIEVE ME, I TAKE THEMSERIOUSLY, BUT LET'S NOT GO

OVERBOARD AND LET'S REMEMBER,YOU KNOW, WHO

REALLY IS YOUR PARTNER WITH THEVALUES THAT YOU SUBSCRIBE TO.

AND YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP MAKINGTHAT CASE.

>> Jon: RIGHT. CERTAINLY ABETTER CASE THAN GOING LIKE,

WE BOMBED YOU. WE COULDBOMB YOU AGAIN.

DON'T GET SO SASSY.

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'SRIGHT. WE TRIED THAT.

>> Jon: EXACTLY.

THAT DIDN'T WORK SO WELL.

>> Jon: "HARD CHOICES."

IT'S ON THE BOOKSHELVES NOW.THANKS SO MUCH.

WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MOREON THE WEB.

SECRETARY HILLARY CLINTON.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

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