Exclusive - Tom Goldstein Extended Interview Pt. 1

  • Aired:  06/27/13
  •  | Views: 26,109

In this exclusive, unedited interview, Tom Goldstein addresses Antonin Scalia's opinions, the finer points of the Prop 8 ruling and the roots of the DOMA decision. (6:50)

>> WELCOME BACK.

MY GUEST TONIGHT IS THE

PUBLISHER OF THE FANTASTIC

SCOTUS BLOTION, PLEASE

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW TOM

GOLDSTEIN.

(APPLAUSE)

WFERNING.

>> WOW.

>> THANK YOU SOOCH FOR

HAVING ME BACK ON WHAT IS

STILL THE BEST SHOW ON

TELEVISION.

>> WHOA, WHOA, WHOA.

READING BETWEEN THE LINE

THERE, STILL DESPITE THE

FACT IT'S IN THE HANDS OF AN

IMPOSTOR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING

HERE.

YOU MUST BE TIRED.

YOU'VE HAD QUITE A WEEK.

>> YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE BEEN

STRIKING THINS DOWN AND

UPHOLDING THEM LIKE IT'S

GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT --

>> AND IT IS VERY MUCH NOT

GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE LITTLE

DETAILS YESTERDAY WAS YOU

HAVE A SCOTUS BLOG HAS A

TWITTER ACCOUNT AS WELL.

AND WE WERE WATCHING PEOPLE

TWEET AT YOU THINKING YOU

WERE ACTUALLY THE SUPREME

COURT.

YOU'VE DESTROYED THE COUNTRY,

HASHTAG FAIL.

>> I HAD NO IDEA HOW SMART

PEOPLE ARE.

IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.

SUPERGENIUSES OUT THERE THAT

ARE CON FINS-- CONVINCED.

>> WE ALL SAW THOSE MOMENTS

WHERE THE INTERNS ARE

RUNNING OUT, PHYSICALLY,

WITH PIECES OF PAPER IF YOUR

HANDS AND YOU THINK THAT'S

CRAZY, IT'S ON THE INTERNET.

BUT IT'S NOT.

>> NO, THE SUPREME COURT IS

MAKING ITS WAY NOT 19th

CENTURY IT HAS A WEB SITE

NOW,.

>> TECHNICALLY AND MORALLY --

>> THEY HAVE DISCOVERED THE

INTERNET.

THEIR SITES HAVE A WEB SITE,

IT'S ON A LITTLE BIT OF A

TAPE DELAY.

>> SO AS THEY'RE RUNNING OUT

WITH THOSE PHYSICAL PIECES

OF PAPER THEY'RE STILL

TALKING.

>> THE JUSTICES ARE UPSTAIRS

IN THE COURTROOM EXPLAINING

WHAT IT IS THEY'VE DONE.

AND JUSTICE SCALIA IS ABOUT

TO GO OFF EXPLAINING WHY IT

IS THE END OF THE WORLD.

AND THEY HAND OUT THE

OPINION DOWNSTAIRS AND IT

GETS RUN OUT TO THE TV

CAMERA.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT JUSTICE SCALIA GOING

OFF AS YOU POLITELY PUT IT.

HE DID GO OFF.

AND HE DOES LIKE TO GO OFF.

HE TALKED ABOUT THE DISEASED

ROOT OF THIS TERRIBLE

DECISION.

AND HOW THE REST OF THE

JUSTICES BASICALLY DID NOT

UNDERSTAND HOW THE SUPREME

COURT WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK.

HOW DID THAT GO DOWN WHEN

YOU ARE SITTING NEXT TO HIM

GOING, HEY!

IT MUST BE WEIRD FOR THE

OTHER JUSTICESES.

>> ARE THEY USED TO HIM

BEING CANTANKEROUS.

>> EACH OF THEM HAS THEIR

OWN PERSONALITY AND CAN SAY

ANYTHING THEY WANT IT IS AN

AMAZING THING, A GREAT OR

HORRIBLE THING ABOUT LIFE

TENURE.

IT IS YOUR WORD AND YOU GET

TO EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS YOU

THINK THE LAW SHOULD BEMENT

AND DOW SIT THERE, AND

JUSTICE SCALIA CAN LOOK

ACROSS THE BENCH AND SAY YOU

ARE A MORAL ABOMINATION OR

YOUR DECISION IS PROBABLY

HOW HE WOULD EXPLAIN IT.

AND YOU CAN SAY THE SAME

THING BACK, SO --

>> THAT IS TRUE.

THAT IS TRUE.

NOW THERE WAS SOME

INTERESTING ANALYSIS TODAY

OF THE PROP 8 DECISION WHICH

SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING COULD

BE ARGUED JUST TO APPLY TO

THOSE TWO COUPLES IT

QUESTION AND HAVE NO BROADER

SIGNIFICANCE IN CALIFORNIA.

WHAT?

>> OKAY.

SO PROPOSITION 8 SAYS THAT

CALIFORNIA WON'T RECOGNIZE

SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.

A COUPLE OF COUPLES SUED THE

TRIAL JUDGE AND SAID THERE

IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO

SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.

THEN 2 GOES UP TO THE COURT

OF APPEALS AND THE SUPREME

COURT.

AND THE SUPREME COURT SAYS

ALL OF THAT WAS KIND OF A

MISTAKE.

WE DIDN'T MEAN IT.

NONE OF THE DEFENDERS OF

PROPOSITION 8 EVER HAD THE

RIGHT TO BE IN URT COULD.

SO IT'S JUST LEFT WITH THOSE

TWO COUPLES.

BUT THE GOVERNOR OF

CALIFORNIA, THE ATTORNEY

GENERAL OF CAT CALL HAVE

SAID WE NEVER THOUGHT

PROPOSITION 8 WAS

CONSTITUTIONAL.

AND SO THEY ARE DIRECTING

ALL THE CALIFORNIA OFFICIALS

TO ISSUE SAME-SEX MARRIAGES

STARTING IN ABOUT A MONTH.

>> SO--

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

>> BUT YOU'RE SAYING-- YOU'RE

SAYING THAT TECHNICALLY AT

THE MOMENT IT IS THAT NARROW

THAT RULING.

>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

AT THIS MOMENT, BECAUSE THE

COURT OF APPEALS PUT

EVERYTHING ON HOLD UNTIL THE

SUPREME COURT COULD DECIDE

THE CASE, EVERYBODY IS

SITTING GOING, IF I DAY NOW.

BUT THERE'S THIS LEGAL

PROCESS.

IT KEEPS LAWYERS EMPLOYED

AND THAT MAKES IT A GOOD

THING.

AND WE'RE JUST, YOU JUST

NEED TO WAIT FOR US AND

WE'LL GET AROUND TO IT.

>> SO IT COULD BE THAT WE DO

CIVIL RIGHTS ON A

CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT BROWN

VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION

POTENTIALLY ONLY APPLIED TO

BROWN?

>> I THINK I KNOW A CERTAIN

SOUTHERN LADY-- WHO WOULD BE

QUITE INTERESTED IN IT.

>> SHE IS WHAT SHE IS.

SHE IS WHAT SHE IS.

THE DOMO RULING IN

PARTICULAR THAT IS A MOMENTUS

RULING IN U.S. HISTORY.

>> THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF

LOOKING AT THE DOMO RULE,

WHICH ITS OWN TERMS IT SAID

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE

CONSTITUTION REQUIRES IT TO

RECOGNIZE SAME-SEX

MARRIAGES.

NOW THE LEGAL THEORY IS THAT

THOSE MARRIAGES HAVE EQUAL

FOOTING.

THEY DESERVE RESPECT.

AND SO THERE'S A LEGAL

DECISION ITSELF IS

IMPORTANT.

BUT THE MORAL MESSAGE IS

MUCH BIGGER.

IT IS THE MAJORITY OF THE

SUPREME COURT WHICH 25 YEARS

AGO WROTE A HORRIBLE

DECISION DISPARAGING GAYS

HAS TURNED AROUND AND SAID

WE THINK YOU'RE ACTUALLY

HUMAN BEINGS.

(APPLAUSE)

>> BUT THEY HAD TO MAKE AN

ARGUMENT FOR THAT.

>> AND IT WAS CLOSE.

>> AND IT WAS CLOSE.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT WAS 5-4 YOU'RE HUMAN

BEINGS.

>> YEAH.

(LAUGHTER)

>> RIGHT, AND SO WHAT THIS

PROBABLY DOES IS IT DOESN'T

CREATE A CONSTITUTIONAL

RIGHT TO SAME-SOLICITOR-GENERAL

MARRIAGE IN ANY OF THE OTHER

STATESES THAT DON'T

RECOGNIZE IT BUT FOR THE

MOMENTUM IN THE STATES, FOR

THE PEOPLE IN STATE

LEGISLATURE SAYING LOOK,

WHAT WES WANT IS JUST

EQUALITY, NOT SPECIAL

TREATMENT THIS GIVES IT AN

ADDITIONAL PUSH.

AND THE SUPREME COURT,

PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES

OBVIOUSLY CARE A LOT ABOUT

IT.

SO IT IS A GREAT MORAL

MESSAGE.

>> AND JUSTICE SCALIA SAW

THIS COMING.

BECAUSE IN THE 20023

DECISION WHERE ALL OF A

SUDDEN SODOMY WAS LEGAL, IN

2003, THIS 2003, THE ONE

THAT JUST WANT PASSED, HE

SAID OH, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS

IN THE WIND, GAY MARRIAGE.

>> EVERYONE LAUGHED AND SAID

NO, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

BUT IT IS AMAZING HOW FAR

THIS COUNTRY HAS COME.

>> IT IS UNBELIEVABLE.

I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING

LIKE IT.

>> ONE OF THE MOST

INCREDIBLE THINGS WAS ALSO

THAT THE NORMAL SEE OF THE

REACTION TO IT, AS WELL.

>> EXACTLY.

>> YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT

THAT OUT ON THE STEPS OF THE

SUPREME COURT THERE WOULD

HAVE BEEN SOCIAL

CONSERVATIVES GOING

ABSOLUTELY NUTS.

INSTEAD WHAT THERE WAS WAS

CHOIRS SINGING, PEOPLE

HUGGING, PEOPLE TALKING

ABOUT WILL YOU MARRY ME.

AND IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE HOW

ONE-SIDED AND HOW THE REST

OF THE COUNTRY DIDN'T REGARD

THISES ALIKE AAAHHH.

>> BECAUSE IT'S JUST FINE.

>> IT TURNED OUT IT WORKED

OUT OKAY.

>> IT TURNS OUT IT IS OKAY.

DO YOU HAVE TIME TO STICK

AROUND AND GO TO THE WEB.

>> YES.

>> SCOTUS BLOG IS FANTASTIC.

FIND IT ON THE INTERNET.

TOM GOLDSTEIN.

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