Exclusive - Husain Haqqani Extended Interview Pt. 3

  • Aired:  12/09/13
  •  | Views: 21,988

In this exclusive, unedited interview, "Magnificent Delusions" author Husain Haqqani considers the limits of American power in Pakistan. (6:14)

I THINK AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICYNEEDS TO BE FAR MORE

SOPHISTICATED.

THE WORLD IS NOT A PROBLEM FORAMERICA TO SOLVE.

IT'S A SITUATION FOR AMERICA TOUNDERSTAND.

IF AMERICANS CAN UNDERSTANDOTHER COUNTRIES THEY MAY BE ABLE

TO BUILD BETTER RELATIONSHIPS.

I DON'T THINK PAKISTAN IS ANENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES AND I

DON'T THINK OUGHT TO BE BUT THEYNEED A REALITY-BASED

RELATIONSHIP WHERE THEY BOTHUNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WANT.

PAKISTANIS HAVE A LEGITIMATECOMPLAINT THAT AMERICANS CHANGE

WHAT THEY WANT.

>> Jon: AND WE'RE ALSO RAININGMISSILES FROM THE SKY.

>> AND RAINING MISSILES BECAUSEYOU THINK THE SOLUTION TO THE

PROBLEM IS ELIMINATING THETERRORISTS YOU ALREADY KNOW.

I THINK THE BIGGER PROBLEM ISTERRORISTS STILL BEING CREATED

WHICH WOULD BE THE PEOPLE WHOARE UNABLE TO STUDY, HAVE NO

FUTURE AND HOPES ANDEXPECTATIONS.

THERE ARE SO MANY PAKISTANIS WHOHAVE HIGH EDUCATION BUT THEY

WOULD RATHER COME TO NEW YORKAND DRIVE A CAB THAN STAY BACK

HOME.

WHEREAS THE POLICY OF THE U.S.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN, COULD BE, TOTRY TO CREATE CIRCUMSTANCES IN

WHICH ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WOULDBE EMPLOYED BACK HOME

PRODUCTIVELY AND MAKE THEIR OWNCOUNTRY SUCCESSFUL.

>> Jon: I UNDERSTAND THAT.

ISN'T THERE SOMETHING ELSE ATPLAY HERE ALSO RECOGNIZING THE

LIMITS OF AMERICAN POWER.

THIS IDEA THAT WE CAN CREATE THECONDITIONS IN OTHER COUNTRIES

FOR DESIRED RESULTS IS A FOOL'SERRAND IN MANY REGARDS, AND

WHETHER IT BE THROUGH MILITARYPOWER OR SANCTIONS OR

ECONOMIC -- THE WORLD IS.

EELIER THAN WE CAN GET OURHANDS AROUND IT AND WE IN SOME

WAYS MAKE IT WORSE BYINSINUATING OURSELVES INTO

POLICIES AND SITUATIONS THAT WEHAVE NO BUSINESS BEING IN AND

NOT TO OUR ADVANTAGE.

>> YOU CANNOT REENGINEER THEWORLD.

YOU NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ISGOING ON.

AND IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALLIESTHOSE ALLIES SHOULD BE PEOPLE

WHO AGREE WITH YOUR VALUES ANDWITH WHOM YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN

COMMON.

EVEN IF IT'S AN INTEREST-BASEDRELATIONSHIP IT SHOULD BE

VERY CLEAR FOR BOTH SIDES.

MY SECOND PLUG FOR THE BOOK.

THERE ARE MANY EPISODES WHEREPAKISTANI LEADERS COME TO

AMERICAN LEADERS SAYING MYPEOPLE HATE AMERICA BUT I LOVE

YOU.

I WANT YOUR ASSISTANCE ANDSUPPORT TO STAY -- THAT ONLY

CREATES SOME SORT OF SEMBLANCEOF A RELATIONSHIP, SOME

COOPERATION BUT DOWN BELOW THEHATRED FESTERS.

THE WAY TO CHANGE IT WOULD BETO HAVE A LONGER TERM VIEW

OF THE WORLD.

THERE'S 193 MEMBERS OF UNITEDNATIONS.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A POLICY OF HOWTO REENGINEER EACH ONE OF THEM.

WHEN I WAS AMBASSADOR, JON, WHENI USED TO --

>> Jon: DID YOU JUST THROWTHAT AT ME?

I THINK YOU SAID WHEN I WAS ANAMBASSADOR AND STEPPED BACK FOR

A SECOND AND SAID, JON.

>> I'M LEARNING THINGS FROM YOU.

I WATCH YOUR SHOW.

>> Jon: I LIKE THIS.

IT'S GOOD.

>> I SAW GENERAL ALADIN ON YOURSHOW SO AT LEAST

I'M DOING BETTER THAN HE IS.

>> Jon: YOU ARE.

>>WHENEVER I MET AMERICANS, THEFIRST QUESTION THEY WOULD ASK

ME: WHAT CAN WE DO FOR

PAKISTAN. I FELT LIKESAYING TO THEM, YOU KNOW,BEFORE YOU ASK ME WHAT YOU

CAN DO FOR MY COUNTRY WOULDN'TYOU LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IS

HAPPENING IN MY COUNTRY?

A LITTLE BIT OF MOREUNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS GOING

ON?

AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT MAY BEBENEFICIAL TO BOTH OF US AND

SOMETIMES WHEN YOU HAVE APATRONIZING ATTITUDE YOU

ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE ANGER AND YOUMAKE PEOPLE FEEL THAT YOU ARE

CONDESCENDING TOWARDSTHEM.

>> Jon: IT'S A NICE POINT.

I'M OF THE MINDSET YOU CANNOTCONTROL HOW OTHER PEOPLE VIEW

YOU.

YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURINTENTION AND ACTIONS.

IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD POLICY FORA LONG TIME IN THAT PART OF THE

WORLD TO USE AMERICA TO STIR UPSENTIMENT AGAINST TO HELP

CONSOLIDATE POWER.

IN THE SAME WAY THAT OBAMA HASDRONE STRIKES AND ALL THAT AND

THEY DECRY IT IN THE PAKISTANIGOVERNMENT AND THEY ARE THE ONES

AT TIMES CALLING ON THE PHONEAND SAYING CAN YOU HELP US GET

THIS ONE GUY OR THIS OTHER GUYOR BEING BRIEFED ABOUT IT?

IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT THEAMERICANS CAN ALWAYS TURN AROUND

AND SAY WE WOULDN'T BE USING THEDRONES.

I HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS THEY USETHE DRONES.

I DO UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT.

THEY WOULD SAY WE WOULDN'T BEUSING THEM IF YOU TAKE CARE OF

YOUR OWN BACKYARD, YOU IF YOU DOTHAT I DON'T HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP

FOR YOU.

BUT WHILE MAKING THAT ARGUMENTTHE AMERICANS DON'T TAKE FULL

RESPONSIBILITY AND HAVE ACOMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY.

>> Jon: WOW DID THAT SUM USUP.

[ LAUGHTER ][ L>> JON IN AFGHANISTAN FOR

EXAMPLEA SCHOOL BEFORE AMERICANS

ARRIVED A BLACKBOARD, CHALKA TEACHER AND A FEW BOOKS.

THE TALIBAN THREW THAT OUT BUTWHEN THE AMERICANS ARRIVED THEY

SAID THE IDEA OF A SCHOOL IS ITSHOULD BE A BIT LIKE A GOOD

SCHOOL IN NEW JERSEY, ABASKETBALL COURT, THANK GOD THEY

DIDN'T INSIST ON HAVING A PROM.

YOU SPEND TOO MUCH MONEY.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS, AMERICANSAFTER A LITTLE WHILE SAY WHY ARE

WE WASTING OUR MONEY THERE?

THE LOCAL PEOPLE START WONDERINGDO WE REALLY NEED TO SPEND ALL

THIS ON THIS?

WHY NOT POCKET SOME?

THERE'S A LOT OF CORRUPTIONENCOURAGED AND THE RESULTS ARE

NOT NECESSARILY WHAT YOU WANTED.

AFTER A FEW YEARS, THE AMERICANSDON'T LOSE WARS BUT THEY LOSE

INTEREST.

[ LAUGHTER ]>> Jon: LOOK AT YOU.

YEAH.

[ LAUGHTER ]>> THANK YOU.

>> Jon: HUSAIN HAQQANI.

"MAGNIFICENT DELUSIONS" IS ONTHE BOOKSHELVES NOW.

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]

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