Exclusive - Fareed Zakaria Extended Interview Pt. 2

  • Aired:  07/24/14
  •  | Views: 17,229

Fareed Zakaria, the host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS," discusses the future of international relations in a world where small militant groups can have wide-reaching influence. (6:26)

I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT...

YOU HAVE WRITTEN RECENTLY, THISIS NOT THE WORST TIME IN

HISTORY.

EXPLAIN YOURSELF.

[LAUGHTER]>> WELL, YOU KNOW, JON, IT

WAS RIFFING OFF ASPEECH JOHN McCAIN MADE, ONE

OF YOUR FAVORITES.

>> Jon: WHO?

>> AND HE SAID THAT THIS IS THE,YOU KNOW, MOST TERRIBLE

INTERNATIONAL SECURITY SITUATIONI HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFETIME,

AND IT'S ALL BECAUSE OFPRESIDENT OBAMA.

AND, I JUST THOUGHT WE NEEDEDSOME PERSPECTIVE THAT,

YOU KNOW, DURING THE COLD WAR,THE SUPERPOWERS HAD 45,000

NUCLEAR MISSILES POINTED AT EACHOTHER.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> WE WENT, WE WENT TO WAR INVIETNAM WHERE WE LOST 50,

WHATEVER IT WAS, ALMOST 60,000AMERICANS, BUT THE

VIETNAMESE LOST THREE MILLION BYSOME COUNTS, AT LEAST ONE

MILLION.

THERE WAS THE 1973 WAR BETWEENEGYPT AND ISRAEL.

WE WENT UP TO DEFCON THREE,WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, THE HIGHEST

STATE OF ALERT OTHER THANTHE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS.

WE'VE BEEN THROUGH SOME PRETTYTOUGH STUFF. YES...

>> Jon: WE FOUGHT A CIVIL WAR,HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

>> RIGHT. YOU MIGHT HAVEFORGOTTEN. THAT WASN'T DURING

McCAIN'S LIFETIME. IT DOES, ITDOES SEEM THAT WAY.

[LAUGHTER][CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

THOUGH I CAN UNDERSTAND THEMISTAKE.

>> Jon: HE'S GOING TO LOVETHAT.

>> SO, SO THE POINT I WASMAKING WAS WE'RE FACING SERIOUS,

COMPLICATED ISSUES.

THE RUSSIANS DOING WHAT IT'SDOING IN CRI --

>> Jon: RIGHT.>> BUT, YOU KNOW, THE RUSSIANS

INVADED CZECHOSLOVAKIA IN '68,AND HUNGARY IN '56.

THERE WERE TWO RUSSIAN ATTEMPTSTO SQUASH, YOU KNOW, THEIR

SATELLITES. WE'RE GOING THROUGHTOUGH STUFF, BUT LET'S NOT

START TALKING ABOUT HOW, OH, MYGOD, THE WORLD IS, YOU KNOW,

COLLAPSING, WE'VE NEVER SEENANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE.

AND THAT DID SEEM VERY PARTISANRATHER THAN SOME KIND OF AN

OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS OF THESITUATION.

>> Jon: FROM McCAIN.

>> WELL...>> Jon: UNUSUAL FOR HIM.

>> WELL, AS YOU KNOW, HE USED TOBE... THERE WAS A TIME WHEN

McCAIN WAS DIFFERENT AND THENYOU KNOW...

>> Jon: YEAH, HE GOT BIT BY AMOSQUITO OR SOMETHING.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL, IDON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL

HAPPENED TO THAT GUY, BUTWOULDN'T YOU SAY... IT SEEMS TO

ME THAT A LOT OF THE ISSUE ISINSTABILITY IS MUCH EASIER.

TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE IT SO THATINSTABILITY IS EASIER TO CREATE.

IT TAKES LESS MONEY AND LESSPEOPLE TO CREATE INSTABILITY IN

REGIONS THAN IT USED TO BECAUSETHEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON

RELATIVELY SOPHISTICATEDWEAPONRY FOR VERY SMALL GROUPS.

>> YEAH, THIS IS THE BIG CHANGEIN A SENSE THAT'S TAKEN PLACE.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> SO, SO, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEDEMOCRATIZATION OF VIOLENCE.

>> Jon: YES.

>> YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGYHAS MADE SO IT THAT YOU

LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENEDWITH THIS PLANE.

IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE EVEN TENYEARS AGO I THINK FOR SMALL

GROUP OF THUGS TO FIRE A MISSILETHAT COULD GO 33,000 FEET UP IN

THE AIR AND TAKE OUT A CIVILIANAIRLINER.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> YOU COULD, YOU COULD GET TOLOWER-FLYING AIRCRAFT.

YOU COULD GET TO HELICOPTERS.

>> THEY HAD THOSE SHOULDERMISSILES.

>> RIGHT. AND THERE WERESHOULDER...

BUT NOW WHAT YOU HAVE ISESSENTIALLY THE BACK OF A TRUCK.

YOU HAVE SOMETHING WHICH HAS ARADAR THAT IS PRETTY

SOPHISTICATED.

NOW HERE'S THE CATCH, IT'SSOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO TELL YOU

THAT THERE'S AN AIRLINER ANDYOU CAN HIT IT.

IT CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER IT'SCIVILIAN OR MILITARY.

FOR THAT YOU NEED TO BE PLUGGEDINTO A MUCH WIDER RADAR SYSTEM.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> SO, IT SHOWS YOU, YOU KNOW,YOU HAVE ENOUGH POWER TO BE

REALLY RESPONSIBLEAND NIHILISTIC.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> AND THAT'S,THAT'S THE DANGER.

>> Jon: AND THAT'S THE DANGER.

AND THEN INSTAGRAM IT AS SOON ASYOU DID IT. LIKE THAT'S...

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> YOU KNOW, THEY'RE DOING THISTHING NOW WHERE THEY, THEY WEAVE

CHAOS AND THEN POST IT.>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> Jon: YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS TOBE THEIR METHODOLOGY AND THEN

THAT CATCHES FIRE AMONGST OTHERDISAFFECTED GROUPS.

SO DOESN'T THAT THROW INTO...

THIS ENTIRE PARADIGM OF AMERICANPOWER THAT SUPPRESSES THESE

POCKETS OF INSTABILITY ISENTIRELY BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER,

THIS IDEA THAT, OH, IF WE JUSTCHANGE REGIMES WE WILL STABILIZE

COUNTRIES.

WHAT WE SEE NOW IS, WE SOWCHAOS.

>> WELL, IT SHOWS YOU THATANYONE TRYING TO DO IT, IT'S

MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. LOOK...

>> Jon: RIGHT. BUT NO ONE ELSESEEMS TO TRY TO DO IT.

>> NO, THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT ISTRYING IN THEIR OWN WAY...

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> TO SUPPRESS WHAT THEY REGARDAS INSTABILITY, AND EVEN WITH

THE BRUTAL MECHANISM THEY'REUSING, IT'S NOT WORKING.

THE RUSSIANS TRY IT INCHECHNYA, THEY MANAGED TO DO

IT, KILLED 250,000CIVILIANS IN DOING IT.

>> Jon: RIGHT.>> BUT YOUR...FUNDAMENTALLY...

>> Jon: WELL, ISRAEL FACESTHE SAME THING.

>> IT DOES...

>> Jon: THEY THINK THATOVERWHELMING FORCE WILL BE THE

ONLY THING...>> RIGHT.

>> Jon: AND THEN THE PEOPLEIN THAT AREA WHO ARE TRAPPED WHO

ARE NOT PART OF HAMAS...>> RIGHT.

>> Jon: OR ARE NOT A PART OFTHIS INSURRECTION ARE, ARE

DEVASTATED.

>> RIGHT. THE COST OF DISRUPTIONHAS DROPPED DRAMATICALLY.

>> Jon: RIGHT.>> AND THE COST OF

ESTABLISHING ORDER OF SOME KINDIS INCREDIBLY HIGH.

SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IRAQ, YOUKNOW, WHEN PEOPLE SAY, WELL, IF

WE HAD STAYED THERE, WELL, WOULDTHAT REALLY, WOULD 5,000

AMERICAN TROOPS MANAGED TO TURNTHIS AROUND, IT SEEMS UNLIKELY.

>> Jon: RIGHT. 100,000 DIDN'TGET IT TO THE LEVEL OF STABILITY

THAT IS REQUIRED BY SOME OFTHESE COUNTRIES.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> Jon: IN YOUR MIND, IS THISNOW THEN THE NEW, THE NEW NORMAL

THAT WE LIVE WITH IS POCKETS OFINSTABILITY THAT CREATE

THESE CONFLAGRATIONS RATHERTHAN SORT OF WORLD CONFLICTS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE CRUCIALISSUE IS WHERE THE STATE HAS

LOST LEGITIMACY.

AND YOU SEE THAT IN THE BROADERMIDDLE EAST.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THEMIDDLE EAST, 20 YEARS AGO, FROM

LIBYA, TUNISIA, EGYPT,IRAQ, SYRIA, YOU HAD A

STABLE ORDER, BUT IT WASBASED ON REPRESSION.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> SO THE LEGITIMACY OF ALLTHOSE REGIMES HAS GONE.

AND WHAT TURNS OUT IS THERE ISNOTHING HOLDING THOSE COUNTRIES

TOGETHER.

SO PEOPLE ARE PULLING BACK TOTHEIR DEEPER ROOTS, SHIA, SUNNI,

KURD.

>> Jon: DIFFERENT IDENTITIES,TRIBAL AND RELIGIOUS.

>> RIGHT. AND IN THAT SITUATION,I THINK IT'S VERY HARD TO KEEP

THE STATE TOGETHER.I DON'T THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW,

IT'S A PROBLEM IN PLACES WHEREYOU HAVE A COHERENT

NATIONAL IDENTITY AND THE STATEIS SEEN AS LEGITIMATE.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> BUT THERE WILL BE THOSEPOCKETS, AND THOSE I THINK

YOU'LL JUST HAVE A WORLDOF THOSE BADLANDS.

>> Jon: SO, THE NEW STATUS QUOIS WARLORDS AND A MORE FEUDAL

SYSTEM AND A BALKANIZATION...>> RIGHT.

>> Jon: AND THE REST OF US JUSTHAVE TO HOPE THAT NOBODY

THERE GETS A NUKE.

>> AND... RIGHT. AND DON'T GOTHERE. DON'T, YOU KNOW,

TRAVEL ADVISORIES ARE GOODFOREIGN POLICY FOR A WHILE.

>> Jon: YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALWAYSI THINK A RAY OF SUNSHINE AND

AN OPTIMISTIC VOICE IN AWORLD OF DARKNESS.

AND I, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.

>> THANK, THANK YOU BOSS.

[LAUGHTER]>> Jon: I CAN'T WAIT.

FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS.

IT AIRS SUNDAYS AT 10:00 A.M.

AND 1:00 P.M. ON JON STEWART'SCNN.

FAREED ZAKARIA.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

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