Pervez Musharraf Pt. 1

  • Aired:  07/19/11
  •  | Views: 45,255

Former president of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf admits to Pakistani intelligence failures but insists Pakistan did not hide Osama bin Laden. (8:53)

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE).

>> Jon: WELCOME BACK.

MY GUEST TONIGHT, HE IS THE

FORMER PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN.

PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO THE

PROGRAM PERVEZ MUSHARRAF.

SIR.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

NICE TO SEE YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

(APPLAUSE)

HAVE A SEAT.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

NICE SEEING YOU.

>> Jon: THE LAST TIME WE... I

PREPARED SOME REFRESHMENTS FOR

US.

I PREPARED TEA AND A TWINKIE.

(LAUGHTER)

THAT WAS OUR... WE HAVE TO TAKE

IT UP A NOTCH BECAUSE OF THE

DETERIORATION OF OUR TWO

COUNTRY'S RELATIONSHIP.

(LAUGHTER)

POWER AID AND BALANCE BARS.

(LAUGHTER)

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER HAD

THIS.

YOU CAN HAVE A... WOULD YOU CARE

FOR S'MORES?

>> I'M OKAY WITH THAT.

>> Jon: (LAUGHS)

YOU'RE OKAY WITH JUST THIS?

I DON'T BLAME YOU, SIR.

THAT'S PROBABLY WISE.

TO YOUR HEALTH.

>> CHEERS.

(LAUGHTER)

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

>> Jon: A TASTE SENSATION.

LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE, I ASKED

YOU WHERE OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS.

(LAUGHTER)

LAUGH NOW, AT THE TIME I BELIEVE

YOU HELD A RELATIVELY HIGH-LEVEL

POSITION IN PAKISTAN.

(LAUGHTER)

YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU DIDN'T

KNOW.

FUNNY STORY.

(LAUGHTER)

AS IT TURNS OUT, HE WAS THERE!

IN A TOWN CALLED ABBOTTABAD.

>> YES.

>> Jon: SO...

(LAUGHTER)

... THAT WAS WEIRD.

(LAUGHTER)

DON'T YOU THINK, OR...

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD...

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD

THINK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK... I KNOW THAT

YOU WERE UPSET THAT WE CAME ON

TO PAKISTANI SOVEREIGN TERRITORY

TO DO IT.

WE WERE UPSET THAT HE WAS THERE.

HOW DO WE BRIDGE THIS CONFLICT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME

CLARIFY.

I KNOW THAT IN YOUR PROGRAM YOU

SAID I LIED TO YOU...

>> Jon: I MENTIONED THAT.

>> BUT THE SILVER LINING WAS

THAT YOU SAID YOU LIED TO ME.

SO WE'RE ON A LEVEL PLAYING

FIELD.

>> Jon: WELL, TO BE FAIR, I

SAID THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN

LYING ABOUT OSAMA BIN LADEN AND

I LIED ABOUT READING YOUR BOOK.

(LAUGHTER)

SO WE'RE NOT SO ON A LEVEL

FIELD, BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

HOW IS IT... EXPLAIN TO US.

IT'S HARD FOR US TO IMAGINE A

HIGH-LEVEL INDIVIDUAL LIKE THAT

TO BE ABLE TO ENSCONCE HIMSELF

IN A NEIGHBORHOOD.

ABBOTTABAD IS NICE, GOLF

COURSES, PEOPLE RETIRE THERE.

IT'S YOUR PALM SPRINGS, TO SOME

EXTENT.

HOW DID IT... IS IT POSSIBLE

THAT HE COULD HAVE BEEN THERE

AND NO ONE KNEW?

>> YES, IT IS VERY POSSIBLE.

IT'S VERY POSSIBLE BECAUSE IF

YOU EVEN SEE WHERE HE WAS LIVING

AND HE WAS NOT GUARDED, THE

INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES KNEW OR

THE ARMY KNEW, WOULD HE... WOULD

THEY LEAVE HIM THERE UNGUARDED

SO THAT HE ESCAPES AND WHEN

C.I.A. COMES AND OCCUPIES A SAFE

HOUSE CLOSE BY, WOULD... IF I

I.S.I. KNEW OR OUR INTELLIGENCE

KNEW WOULD RELET HIM ESCAPE

BECAUSE...

>> Jon: BUT ISN'T THAT WHY WE

DIDN'T... THE U.S. DIDN'T TELL

PAKISTAN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T...

THE TRUST HAD BECOME SO BROKEN

AT THAT POINT THEY THOUGHT IF

THEY DID TELL THAT THE

POSSIBILITY EXISTED THAT HE

WOULD GET AWAY.

>> I THINK IF I.S.I. KNEW AND

THERE WAS COMPLICITY THEN THEY

WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT C.I.A. HAS

OCCUPIED A SAFE HOUSE VERY CLOSE

AND IF THEY KNEW THAT THEY WOULD

HAVE ALLOWED HEM TO ESCAPE.

AS IT IS HE WAS SITTING THERE

UNGUARDED.

WHY WOULD THE ARMY OR

INTELLIGENCE ALLOW HIM TO BE IN

A HOUSE WHERE HE COULD ESCAPE,

COME AND GO.

SUCH AN IMPORTANT INDIVIDUAL.

WHY WOULDN'T THEY USE HIM FOR

THAT MATTER IF HE WAS THERE FOR

FIVE YEARS WHY WOULDN'T I USE

HIM FOR SOME LEVERAGE FOR

MYSELF.

>> Jon: OKAY.

WELL, I GUESS I'LL ASK YOU THEN.

(LAUGHS)

IT'S JUST HARD FOR ME... HE WAS

LIVING IN A MILLION-DOLLAR

HOUSE.

THEY SAY IT WAS THE ONLY HOUSE

IN THE NEIGHBOR THAT BURNED

THEIR OWN TRASH.

IF A YOUNGSTER KICKED A SOCCER

BALL OVER THE WALL THEY JUST

PAID THE YOUNGSTER.

PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARE

LIKE "WEIRD FOLKS LIVING THERE."

(LAUGHTER)

DIDN'T IT RAISE THE... THIS

IS... ABBOTTABAD IS THE TOWN

THAT BASICALLY HOUSES PAKISTAN'S

VERSION OF WEST POINT.

YOUR... THE GENERAL THAT YOU HAD

TO HEAD UP THE I.S.I. UNDER YOUR

REGIME WAS THE HEAD OF THE

ABBOTTABAD MILITARY FACILITY,

WAS HE NOT?

>> WELL DIFFERENT TRAINING

INSTITUTION, YES, INDEED.

SAME AS WEST POINT.

THE PAKISTAN MILITARY ACADEMY.

AND OTHER TRAINING INSTITUTIONS.

THERE'S NO COMBAT TROOPS.

HOWEVER THIS IS A HILL STATION

THIS IS A TOURIST RESORT AND ALL

PEOPLE GOING TO THE NORTHERN

AREAS INTO THE MOUNTAINS ARE

FROM THIS.

IT'S A TOWN OF ABOUT 800,000

PEOPLE, CIVILIANS AND MILITARY

ALL INTERMINGLED.

THERE ARE NO WALLED COMPOUNDS AS

WE PRESUME THERE WAS A

GARRISONED TOWN.

NOT AT ALL.

SO THEREFORE... AND THEN SINCE

HE WAS NOT USING ANY TELEPHONES

IT WAS ONLY HUMAN INTELLIGENCE

THAT YOU... ONE WAS BANKING ON.

HUMAN INTELLIGENCE IS IF THE

PEOPLE AROUND KNOW...

>> Jon: .

>> THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE

SUSPICIONS ABOUT ONE WEIRD HOUSE

WHERE THEY BURNED THEIR TRASH

AND DON'T HAVE A PHONE.

LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY, WOULD

YOU BE SUSPICIOUS OF US IF THIS

IS REVERSED AND WE ARE HARBORING

JOHN... I DON'T KNOW WHAT... WHO

THE CORRESPONDING FIGURE WOULD

BE AND HE LIVED A HALF... YOU

KNOW, A HALF MILE AWAY FROM WEST

POINT OR A HALF MILE AWAY FROM

LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE AND WE

WENT TO YOU AND SAID LA NINA.

WOULDN'T YOU THINK WE WERE BEING

DISINGENUOUS?

BECAUSE YOU TRUST US?

>> THERE ARE INTELLIGENCE

FAILURES, THIS IS NOT A CASE OF

COMPLICITY.

IT'S CERTAINLY A CASE OF

NEGLIGENCE.

AFTER ALL, IF YOU GO BACK TO

9/11, WASN'T C.I.A. THE MOST

POWERFUL ORGANIZATION?

THIGH DIDN'T KNOW 18 PEOPLE WERE

TRAINING TO ATTACK YOUR WORLD

TRADE CENTER.

>> NO, THEY DID, THEY JUST

DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY ELSE.

>> THEY DIDN'T KNOW FOUR

AIRCRAFT WERE HIJACKD FROM FOUR

DIFFERENT AIRFIELDS.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW TWO OF THEM

LEFT...

>> Jon: BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO

ADMIT THERE IS A HISTORY OF

SUSPICION NOT JUST FROM THE

UNITED STATES BUT FROM ENGLAND

AND INDIA THAT THE I.S.I. HAS

TIES TO SOME MILITANT GROUPS

SOME ASSOCIATED WITH AL QAEDA,

SOME ASSOCIATED WITH KASHMIRI

ISLAMISTS, SOME ASSOCIATED WITH

THE HA CABNY NETWORK IN

AFGHANISTAN.

YOU WOULD AT MID-THERE IS A LOT

OF SUSPICION COALESCED AROUND

THIS.

HAQQANI.

THIS IS NOT AN ENORMOUS LEFT

TURN TO SUGGEST THERE MIGHT BE

ELEMENTS WITHIN THE PAKISTANI

INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES THAT HAVE

SYMPATHIES.

I MEAN, FOR GOD'S SAKES, WE TIER

ONES THAT WORKED WITH THEM TO

MAKE HOLY WAR IN AFGHANISTAN

WHEN WE WERE FIGHTING THE

RUSSIANS.

SO WE KNOW THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

>> ROGUE ELEMENTS WITHIN A FEW

OF THEM IS POSSIBLE.

BUT IF YOU THINK I.S.I. AS AN

ORGANIZATION HAD SOME OTHER

PLANS THAN WHAT IT IS SHOWING,

THAT IS WRONG.

THAT IS WHAT IS OBJECTIONABLE.

THAT IS AN INTELLIGENCE

ORGANIZATION WHICH HAS BEEN

DELIVERING SINCE 1979 WHEN WE

FOUGHT THE SOVIETS TOGETHER AND

IT WAS I.S.I. IN THE FOREFRONT

THEY'RE DELIVERING.

THEN ONWARDS.

NOW I.S.I. DOES WHATEVER THE

POLICY OF THE GOVERNMENT IS

WHATEVER THEY ARE ORDERED TO DO.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKED OF INDIA,

THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY ALL

TOGETHER.

I.S.I. AND INDIA HAVE ALWAYS

BEEN A CONFRONTATIONIST COURSE

SINCE OUR INDEPENDENCE SO DON'T

TALK OF THAT.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE ALL

TOGETHER.

HERE WE ARE TALKING OF I.S.I.

ABETTING OR BEING COMPLICIT WITH

AL QAEDA AND TALIBAN WHO HAVE

KILLED 4,000 OF OUR SOLDIERS.

WHO HAS KILLED 4,000 ARMY MEN OF

PAKISTAN?

WHO HAS KILLED ABOUT 300 I.S.I.

PEOPLE?

WHO HAS DONE THAT?

SOME CANADIANS?

(LAUGHTER).

>> Jon: CAN I SAY THIS?

CAN I SAY THIS?

CANADIANS ARE A RUTHLESS PEOPLE.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

I WOULD NOT PUT IT PAST THEM.

ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A

COMMERCIAL BREAK.

WHEN WE COME BACK, MORE FROM

PERVEZ

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