Dambisa Moyo

  • Aired:  07/31/12
  •  | Views: 11,644

"Winner Take All" author Dambisa Moyo argues that China's way of doing business with the developing world is often more popular with locals than that of the United States. (6:01)

>> Jon: WELCOME BACK.

MY GUEST TONIGHT AN INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIST.

SHE'S ALSO A BEST SELLING AUTHOR WITH A BOOK CALLED WINNER TAKE ALL.

PLEASE WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM DAMBISA MOYO.

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]

HELLO.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Jon: NICE TO SEE YOU IMNCH TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU.

>> Jon: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Jon: THE BOOK IS CALLED "WINNER TAKES ALL." IT'S FASCINATING.

YOU HAVE CATALOGED THAT CHINA HAS BEEN TENACIOUSLY GATHERING COMMODITIES FOR THE COMING APOKE

APOKE -- APOCALYPSE.

IS THAT THEIR PLAN?

>> IT'S NOT THEIR PLAN THEY HAVE A BIG AGENDA IN FRONT OF THEM.

1.3 BILLION PEOPLE, 300 MILLION PEOPLE THAT LIVE LIKE US AND A BILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN DIRE POVERTY.

THEIR MOST IMPORTANT PRIORITY IS TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN DELIVER ECONOMIC GROWTH AND IMPROVE

LIVELIHOODS FOR THE POPULATION JONCHES THE WAY THEY'VE DECIDED

TO DO IT IS IN THE OLD WAYS, THE WAY WE WOULD DO IT IS WE WOULD CONQUER A NATION AND WE WOULD

SAY, WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN THAT MOUNTAIN?

WE'LL TAKE IT.

CHINA HAS CHOSEN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT APPROACH.

WHAT IS THEIR APPROACH?

>> THEIR APPROACH IS MUCH MORE FRIENDLY.

THEY REALLY ARE FOCUSED ON SIM BUY YOASIS.

THEY ARE OFFERING PLACES LIKE SOUTH AMERICA, AFRICA AND DEVELOPED ECONOMIES LIKE CANADA

AND AUSTRALIA EXACTLY WHAT THE PLACES NEED.

IN THE EMERGING MARKETS WHERE 90% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION LIVES, PEOPLE ARE INCREDIBLY

POOR BUT TRYING TO IMPROVE LIVELIHOOD.

THEY NEED TRADE AND INVESTMENT.

60% OF THE POPULATION IS UNDER 24.

THEY NEED JOB CREATION,

SOMETHING AMERICANS ARE FAMILIAR WITH.

>> Jon: SORRY, JOB CREATION,

I'M NOT ACTUALLY FAMILIAR WITH THAT TYPE OF SITUATION.

[ LAUGHTER ]

>> THEY ARE DOING THAT.

>> Jon: THE IMAGE THAT I HAVE OF CHINA IS OF SLAVE LABOR PRACTICE AND RAPACIOUS TERRIBLE

ENVIRONMENTALISM BUT YOU ARE SUGGESTING THE COUNTRIES, SOME OF OUR ALLIES, ALMOST PREFER

DEALING WITH THE CHINESE.

>> OF COURSE THERE ARE ISSUES.

THERE'S ALWAYS ISSUES WHEN TWO PARTNERS COME TOGETHER TRYING TO ENGAGE IN ECONOMIC TRADE OR

FOREIGN DIRECT INVESTMENT BUT I THINK CHINA IS GETTING A BAD RAP.

IF YOU GO -- I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO GO TO MANY PLACES AND

YOU ASK WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE CHINESE BY AND LARGE IT'S POSITIVE.

PEOPLE WANT JOBS AND TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVES AND THE CHINESE ARE WILLING TO ENGAGE WITH.

THEY IT'S NOT TO SAY THEY ARE PERFECT.

>> Jon: I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST YOU'VE BEEN TO 50 COUNTRIES.

I'VE BEEN TO EPCOT CENTER AND THE REPUTATION OF THE CHINESE THERE NOT AS POSITIVE.

[ LAUGHTER ]

HOW DO YOU COUNTER THAT?

[ LAUGHTER ]

>> WELL, THE HARD ONE TO COUNTER I'LL TELL YOU, JON.

>> Jon: WHAT CAN WE DO?

THE IDEA IS WE HAVE THIS ENORMOUS BURGEONING POPULATION.

THEY ARE GOING TO NEED ELECTRICITY.

THEY ARE GOING TO NEED WATER AND ALL THESE THINGS.

WE'RE GOING TO START SETTING THE MARKET FOR THOSE THINGS.

WHY AREN'T WE DOING THAT?

WHY AREN'T WE GOING TO AFRICA?

WE GIVE AID AROUND THE WORLD BUT ARE WE ALSO MAKING COMMODITIES CONTRACT?

>> I WISH YOU WERE?

I WOULD AMERICA WOULD TAKE A MUCH MORE POSITIVE LEAD AROUND ENGAGEMENT IN THE MARKETS.

TAKE THE CASE OF AIDS IN PARTICULAR.

THERE'S NO COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF WORLD THAT HAS ACHIEVED GROWTH IN THE TEXT

THEANT AAFRICAN COUNTRIES RELY ON AID TODAY.

YOU LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES APPROACH OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND IT HAS LEFT BEEN WANTING.

PEOPLE ARE ANTSY.

IT'S BEEN 50 YEARS FOR MANY COUNTRIES.

LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN INDIA NOW.

300 PEOPLE WITH NO ACCESS TO ELECTRICITY OVER SEVERAL DAYS.

THEY NEED ELECTRICITY.

WE WANT AMERICA TO BE ENGAGED IN A POSITIVE WAY TO DELIVER RESOURCES AND A CHANGE IN

PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS THERE'S A DISCOURSE GOING ON, I THINK.

>> Jon: CHINA DOES HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF NOT HAVING TO TAKE A VOTE.

CAN THEY JUST -- AREN'T OUR MIKAELA HUNT MULTINATIONALS ENGAGING IN THE MARKETS?

ISN'T EXXON SELLING THEM COAL AND ELECTRICITY AND THESE THINGS?

>> THE TONE COMES FROM THE TOP.

IF YOU LISTEN TO THE RHETORIC THAT COMES OUT OF POLICY-MAKERS IN THE UNITED STATES IT'S EGG IN

TISM TAKE AFRICA FOR EXAMPLE.

THERE'S VERY RARELY A ZPUTION AN AFRICA BEING AN INVESTMENT DESTINATION OR PLACE FOR TRADE.

IT'S GOT A BILLION PEOPLE AND LESS THAN 2% OF WORLD TRADE.

THEY NEED INVESTMENT AND TRADE WELL.

WOE HOPE THAT AMERICAN POLICY-MAKERS WOULD TAKE THE LEAD AND SAY WE WANT AMERICAN

COMPANIES TO ENGAGE IN AFRICA INSTEAD OF TAKING THE APPROACH THAT IT'S A CASE FOR CHARITY.

IT'S THAT DISCOURSE MISSING IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

>> Jon: DO YOU THINK THEY ARE AFRAID OF CORRUPTION THAT GOODS

ON THERE AND HOW DOES CHINA FACE UP TO THAT?

>> RIGHT.

THERE'S AN UNFORTUNATE SENSE THAT CHINA IS MORE CORRUPT THAN SOME OF THE PRACTICES THAT WE

SEE COMING FROM OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.

I THINK THAT'S -- OF COURSE THERE HAVE BEEN THINGS LIKE THE FOREIGN CORRUPT PRACTICES ACT OF

1977 FROM THE UNITED STATES.

>> Jon: THAT WAS A GREAT ACT.

[ LAUGHTER ]

ONE OF THE TOP.

I REMEMBER THAT YEAR.

[ LAUGHTER ]

SHEENA EASTON TOPPED THE CHARTS.

DO YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO STICK AROUND AND KEEP TALKING ABOUT CHINA.

NOT THAT WE HAVEN'T EXHAUSTED TOPIC BECAUSE WE HAVE.

I WANT TO TALK FURTHER IF WE COULD.

THE BOOK IS CALLED "WINNER TAKES ALL." YOU SHOULD READ THIS BECAUSE

ONCE THE CHINESE ARE RULING US THEY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE US LEARN IT ANYWAY DAMBISA

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