September 22, 2014 - Jenny Nordberg

  • Episode: 19156 | 
  • Views: 16,665

NYC hosts the biggest climate change march in history, Jason Jones pilfers an outfit from the White House, and Jenny Nordberg discusses "The Underground Girls of Kabul." 

>> Jon: WELCOME TO "THE DAILYSHOW"!

MY NAME IS JON STEWART! GOODSHOW!

MY GUEST TONIGHT, AUTHOR JENNYNORDBERG, SHE IS THE AUTHOR OF A

BOOK CALLED "THE UNDERGROUNDGIRLS OF KABUL."

SHE WILL BE JOINING US A LITTLEBIT LATER.

BUT FIRST, NEW YORK CITY HOSTEDTHE BIGGEST CLIMATE CHANGE MARCH

IN HISTORY YESTERDAYFEATURING THE BIGGEST HAT

AND THE BIGGEST SIGN ANDTHE BIGGEST KINDEST

PUPPET LIBRARIAN AND THEBIGGEST PAIN IN THE ASS

TO GET ACROSS THE STREETJUST TO GET TO CHIPOTLE.

>> THERE WERE BOLD FACED NAMES.

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE,MAYOR BILL DeBLASIO, AND U.N.

SECRETARY GENERAL BAN KI-MOON.

>> Jon: WHOA! WHOA!

STOP THE PARADE!

BAN KI-MOON?

THE BIGGEST CLIMATE CHANGE INHISTORY.

WHAT DID YOU COME STRAIGHT FROMYOUR AUDITION FROM

"YOU'RE A GOOD MAN,CHARLIE BROWN"?

LOOK AT YOU! YOU'RE WEARING YOURCAMP CLOTHES?

YOU'RE BAN KI-MOON! YOU'RE THEHEAD OF THE U.N.

BY THE WAY, WHAT A GET FOR

U.N. RADIO.

U.N. RADIO GETTING BAN KI-MOON.

NO, NO, I CAN'T TALK TO YOU.

OH! HELLO.

(LAUGHTER)OF COURSE, POLITICIAN WEREN'T

THE ONLY BIG SHOTS ON HAND.THERE WERE A-LIST MOVIE

STARS LIKE MARKRUFFALO AND EDWARD NORTON, BOTH

HAVE BECOME ACUTELY AWARE OFENVIRONMENTAL DANGERS SINCE

THEIR ENCOUNTERS WITH GAMMARADIATION. THEY REALLY HAD...

(LAUGHTER)(APPLAUSE)

>> Jon: WITH THAT SIZE IN STARPOWER, YOU KNOW CABLE NEWS GAVE

IT EVERYTHING THEY HAVE.

>> ALISON KOSIK IS IN NEWYORK. DESCRIBE THE SCENE FOR US

EARLIER. >> EARLIER?

IT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING AS WESPEAK.

(LAUGHTER)>> Jon: PERHAPS IT'S HAPPENING

RIGHT NOW.

PERHAPS YOU CAN TELL BY THE FACTTHAT NOBODY CAN SEE ME IN MY OWN

NEWS REPORT.

COME ON, CNN!

THIS IS CROWD FOOTAGE 101!

YOU PUT THE REPORTER IN FRONT OFTHE CROWD!

MSNBC, SHOW THEM HOW IT'S DONE.

>> LET'S HEAD THERE NOW. WE HAVENED RESNIKOFF WHO'S STAND BY --

>> Jon: [BLEEP]! OH, JESUS!

NOT THAT FAR!

COME ON!

(LAUGHTER)KILL THE FEED!

GOT A GIANT METEOR APPROACHINGTHE PARADE!

AHHH! (LAUGHTER)

WITH YESTERDAY'S SOUP IN HISSTASH!

(LAUGHTER)

ALL RIGHT, NOW YOU MAY BETHINKING, DO WE REALLY NEED A

MARCH TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUTGLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE?

I MEAN, IT'S AN ACCEPTEDSCIENTIFIC PHENOMENON PRETTY

MUCH EVERYWHERE.

HERE'S WHY YOU NEED THE MARCH.

IT'S ACCEPTED PRETTY MUCHEVERYWHERE BUT THIS ONE PLACE

CALLED THE UNITED STATES HOUSEOF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE ON

SCIENCE, SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY.

THIS IS TRUE.

LAST WEEK THEY HELD A HEARINGTHAT THEY APPARENTLY RECORDED IN

1971 --(LAUGHTER)

I GUESS THAT'S THE TECHNOLOGYPART OF THE COMMITTEE NAME -- ON

PRESIDENT OBAMA'S PLAN TO SHRINKCARBON EMISSIONS 30% BY 2030.

THE HEARINGS' SISYPHUS,PRESIDENTIAL SCIENCE ADVISOR

JOHN HOLDREN, CHARGEDWITH THE IMPOSSIBLE TASK OF

PUSHING 1 MILLION POUNDSOF IDIOT UP A MOUNTAIN.

OF COURSE, LIKE ANY AVALANCHE,IT DID BEGAN RATHER INNOCUOUSLY.

TEXAS REPUBLICAN STEVE STOCKMAN.

>> THE LEAD SCIENTIST AT NASASAID THIS, HE SAID WHAT ENDED

THE ICE AGE WAS GLOBAL WOBBLING.

IS THE WOBBLING OF THE EARTHINCLUDED IN ANY OF YOUR

MODELINGS?

AND THE ANSWER WAS NO.

WHEN YOU HAVE A MODEL AND YOUSAY WE'LL LEAVE OUT THE MOST

IMPORTANT IMPACT OF THAT MODELOUT OF OUR THEORY AND NOT TALK

ABOUT GLOBAL WOBBLING, HOW CANYOU MAKE PROJECTIONS?

(LAUGHTER)>> Jon: WHAT'S UP, SCIENTISTS?

GLOBAL WOBBLING, BITCHES!

(LAUGHTER)HE SEES YOUR SO-CALLED GLOBAL

WARMING AND RAISES YOU AGLOBAL WOBBLING.

EXPLAIN THAT DR. WHITE HOUSE.

>> GLOBAL WOBBLING WHICH REFERSTO CHANGES IN THE EARTH'S

TILT AND ORBIT TAKES PLACE ONCHARACTERISTIC TIME SCALES OF

22,000 YEARS, 44,000 YEARS AND100,000 YEARS. IT IS VERY SLOW.

GLOBAL WOBBLES IS A TINY EFFECTOF THE TIME SCALE OF 100 YEARS

IN WHICH WE TRY TO RUN THESEMODELS.

>> Jon: I DIDN'T KNOW WE WOULDBE TALKING TO AN ACTUAL

SCIENTIST...

(WHISPERING)ALL RIGHT, HOLDREN, YOU ACED

THE WOBBLE WARMING.

RIDDLE ME THIS:

>> AT WHAT POINT A LEVEL OF CO2DOES CO2 BECOME DAMAGING?

AT WHAT LEVEL DOES IT BECOMEHARMFUL TO HUMAN BEINGS?

>> Jon: BOOM! HOW CAN CO2 BEDANGEROUS WHEN I CAN STILL

BREATHE?

>> VICE CHAIRMAN ROHRABACHER, IALWAYS ENJOY MY INTERACTIONS

WITH YOU.

>> Jon: MUCH THE WAY ONEENJOYS PLAYING PEEK A BOO WITH A

BABY.(LAUGHTER)

>> Jon: OR PERHAPS TEASING ACAT WITH A LASER POINTER!

(LAUGHTER)>> I HAVE TO SAY WITH RESPECT

THAT'S A RED HERRING.

WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN CARBONDIOXIDE CONCENTRATIONS BECAUSE

OF THEIR DIRECT EFFECT ON HUMANHEALTH, WE'RE INTERESTED IN THEM

BECAUSE OF THEIR EFFECT ON THEWORLD'S CLIMATE AND CLIMATE

CHANGE HAS DISASTEROUS EFFECTSON HEALTH.

>> Jon: WHY CAN WE STILLBREATHE?

THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING! I MEAN,YOU CAN HEAR ME RIGHT?

I'M BREATHING!

AND IT GOT MORE AMAZING AS ITWENT.

INDIANA'S LARRY BUSCHON.

>> IT'S NOT ABOUT AFFECTING THEGLOBAL TEMPERATURE AND CLIMATE

CHANGE.

>> THERE IS PUBLIC COMMENTS OUTTHERE THAT QUESTION HAS BEEN

ASKED AND ANSWERED SAYING NO.

>> YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THESCIENTIFIC LITERATURE RATHER

THAN THE PUBLIC COMMENTS.

(LAUGHTER)(APPLAUSE)

>> Jon: WITH ALL DUERESPECT, REPRESENTATIVE

BUSCHON, I SUGGEST YOU GET THEJOURNAL OF APPLIED

METEOROLOGY AND CLIMATOLOGY AS

OPPOSED TO THE YOU TUBECOMMENT FEED OF OBUMMERLIES1776.

BUT HERE'S WHERE BUSCHON FINALLYGIVES AWAY THE GAME.

>> OF ALL THE CLIMATOLOGISTSWHOSE CAREER DEPENDS ON THE

CLIMATE CHANGING TO KEEPTHEMSELVES PUBLISHING ARTICLES,

YES, I COULD READ THAT BUT IDO NOT BELIEVE IT.

>> Jon: I DO NOT BELIEVE THESCIENTISTS BECAUSE IT IS THEIR

PROFESSION NOT THEIR HOBBY.(LAUGHTER)

WELL SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUTTHE INFLUENCE MONEY MIGHT HAVE

ON CLIMATE CHANGE OPINION,IT TURNS OUT REPRESENTATIVE

BUSCHON'S THREE BIGGEST CAMPAIGNDONORS ARE MURRAY ENERGY,

KOCH ENTERPRISES, AND PEABODYENERGY. AND TRUST ME.

(AUDIENCE REACTS)TRUST ME, THOSE THREE WELL

FUNDED COMPANIES WOULDLOVE TO DISPROVE CLIMATE CHANGE.

TO THE SATISFACTION OFTHE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AT

LARGE. SO IF SCIENTISTS COULD BEBOUGHT THESE MOTHER [BLEEP]

WOULD HAVE ALREADY MADE IT RAININ NERD TOWN. TRUST ME.

AND AGAIN, I CAN'T STRESS THISENOUGH.

THIS IS THE HOUSE OFREPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE ON

SCIENCE, SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY.

>> HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE FOR THESEA LEVEL TO RISE TWO FEET?

I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOURICE CUBE MELTS IN YOUR GLASS, IT

DOESN'T OVERFLOW,IT'S DISPLACEMENT. I MEAN,

THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGSTHEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT

MATHEMATICALLY ANDSCIENTIFICALLY DON'T MAKE SENSE.

>> Jon: ARE YOU [BLEEP] KIDDINGME?

ARE YOU [BLEEP] KIDDING ME?

I DON'T EVEN KNOW --(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DOWITH THAT!

HOW FAR BACK TO THE ELEMENTARYSCHOOL CORE CURRICULUM DO WE

HAVE TO GO TO GET SOMEONE ON THEHOUSE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE,

SPACE AND TECHNOLOGY CAUGHT UP?

DO WE HAVE TO BRING OUT THEPAPIER MACHE AND BAKING SODA SO

YOU CAN MAKE A (BLEEP) VOLCANO?IS THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO?

IS THAT HOW BASIC THE SCIENCECLASS WAS WHEN YOU WENT?

NAH, I DON'T NEED TO KNOWTHIS ANYMORE. FOR GOD'S SAKES!

LOOK, HERE -- HERE, LOOK.

HERE'S A GLASS OF ICE WATER.

HEY, THAT ICE ISN'T MAKING THEWATER OVERFLOW BECAUSE IT'S

ALREADY IN THE WATER!

BUT IMAGINE THERE'S A WHOLEBUNCH OF OTHER ICE THAT'S NOT IN

THE WATER, IT'S ON THE LAND --YOU KNOW, THE PART WHERE THE

WATER ISN'T!

AND THEN WHEN TEMPERATURES RISEAND THE LAND ICE MELTS ENOUGH,

TO FALL IN, OH, (BLEEP)!

IT'S EVERYWHERE!

IT'S EVERYWHERE!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)WAIT A MINUTE.

GLOBAL WARMING, GIANT TOWELS.

(LAUGHTER)ULTIMATELY, THE WHOLE INCREDIBLE

AND BY ALL AAPPEARANCES WILLFULMISUNDERSTANDING OF HOW

THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD HAS BEENAPPLIED TO CLIMATE CHANGE MODELS

AND WHAT THE EFFECTS OFWARMING CAN BE, PARDON THE

PUN, BOILED DOWNTO THIS EXCHANGE.

>> THAT SCARE TACTICS LIKE THAT,YOU KNOW, IS REALLY APPALLING TO

ME TO USE MEDICAL INFORMATION TOSCARE PARENTS THAT THEIR

CHILDREN ABOUT ASTHMA ATTACKSAND SCARE PEOPLE SAYING THAT

THEY WERE GOING TO HAVEHEART ATTACKS.

I ARGUE THAT WE SHOULD ALL ONBOTH SIDES OF THIS DISCUSSION

AVOID SCARE TACTICS.

>> Jon: FIRST OF ALL, THEREAREN'T BOTH SIDES TO THE

DISCUSSION. WHAT HE'SBASICALLY SAYING IS

IT'S UNFAIR TO TALK TO USABOUT THE SCIENTIFIC

AND MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES OF OURACTIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE SCARY

AND WE REALLY DON'T FEEL LIKEDOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT ANYWAY

SO FROM NOW ON WHY NOT AGREETHAT SCIENCE AND THE OIL

INDUSTRY BOTH HAVE OPINIONS.

OH, AND BEFORE YOU TELL YOURKIDS TO WASH THEIR HANDS AFTER

THEY TAKE A (BLEEP) SO THEYDON'T SPREAD DISEASE, MAYBE WE

SHOULD SPEND AN EQUAL AMOUNT OFTIME HEARING FROM BIG FECAL.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>>THE WHITE HOUSE!THE WHITE HOUSE IS

HOME TO THE LEADER OF THE FREEWORLD. AND AS SUCH,

THE ULTIMATE IMPENETRABLEFORTRESS OF SECURITY -- OR NOT.

>> A FRIGHTENING SECURITY BREACHAT THE WHITE HOUSE.

42-YEAR-OLD OMAR GONZALEZ OFTEXAS JUMPED THE FENCE LAST

NIGHT AT 7:20 P.M.

HE MADE IT ALL THE WAY UP THENORTH LAWN.

HE WASN'T STOPPED UNTL HEPASSED THROUGH THE THRESHOLD OF

THE WHITE HOUSE DOORS.

>> WOW.

WELL IT'S A GOOD THING WE DON'TTREAT WHITE HOUSE INTRUDERS THE

WAY WE TREAT CUBAN REFUGEES.BECAUSE THEN, ONCE THAT GUY

REACHED THE HOUSE, PUT HISFOOT ON THE GROUND, HE

WOULD THEN AUTOMATICALLY BECOMEPRESIDENT.

THIS GUY MUST BE SOME KIND OFGENIUS CAT BURGLAR NINJA TO GET

THROUGH THE HOUSE'SMANY LAYERS OF DEFENSES.

>> GONZALES ENTERED THE UNLOCKEDFRONT DOOR OF THE FIRST

FAMILY'S RESIDENCE.

(LAUGHTER)>> Jon: OR HE COULD BE FAST.

THEY LEAVE THE DOOR OF THE MOSTSECURE HOME IN THE COUNTRY --

UNLOCKED.

I GUESS PRESIDENT OBAMA THOUGHTIT WAS TOO DORKY TO CARRY THE

KEY AROUND.

IS THAT THE PROBLEM?

(LAUGHTER)WHAT WAS THE SECRET SERVICE

DOING?

>> THE INCIDENT HAPPENED JUSTFOUR MINUTES AFTER THE FIRST

FAMILY HAD LEFT THE WHITE HOUSEGROUNDS FOR THE WEEKEND.

FORMER SECRET SERVICE SPECIALAGENT SAYS IT'S POSSIBLE THE

BREECH HAPPENED BECAUSERESOURCES WERE FOCUSED ON THE

PRESIDENT'S DEPARTURE.

>> Jon: WELL THAT MAKES SENSE.

IF THEY ALL STAY AT THEIR POSTS,WHO'S GOING TO WAVE GOODBYE TO

THE PRESIDENT AS HE FLIES OFF INHIS HELICOPTER?

AND WHAT IF THE PRESIDENT LOOKEDBACK AND NOBODY WAS WAVING?

WELL, HE WOULD BE HEART BROKEN!

(LAUGHTER)FOR MORE, WE TURN TO WASHINGTON

BUREAU CHIEF JASON JONES LIVEFROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> JON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Jon: JASON, WHAT'SHAPPENING?

>> JON, I AM HERE -->> Jon: JASON, I'M GOING TO HAVE

TO INTERRUPT.

IS THAT THE PRESIDENT'S CLOSET?

HOW DID YOU GET INTO THEIRPRIVATE RESIDENCE?

>> I WALKED IN. JON,WHEN POTUS ISN'T

HERE THERE'S LIKE ZEROSECURITY IN THIS PLACE.

>> Jon: BUT HE'S BACK NOW. HEHAD MEETINGS IN THE WHITE HOUSE

TODAY.

>> THAT'S WHY I'M HIDING!

I CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER PRESIDENTCATCH ME IN THEIR BEDROOM OKAY?

AHHH!

BETSY TRUMAN! OURSWAS A LOVE FORBIDDEN BY

SOCIETY --AND A LOSS OF TIME AND SPACE.

>> Jon: JASON, I APPRECIATETHE ACCESS, BUT COME ON OUT.

THERE'S NO WAY TO REPORT ONTHESE SECURITY BREACHES FROM

BEHIND THE CLOSET.

COME ON OUT AND TALK TO US.

>> FINE! FINE!

>> Jon: AND GIVE US THE SCOOPON EVERYTHING.

(LAUGHTER)REALLY?

(LAUGHTER)REALLY?

ONE OF MICHELLE'SDRESSES. JASON.

>> THANK YOU.>> Jon: YOU'RE IN THERE IN HIS

CLOSET. WHY NOT TAKE ONE OFHIS SUITS?

>> BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING INOBAMA'S CLOSET BUT BOMBER

JACKETS AND MOM JEANS, JON.BESIDES, YOU KNOW, MICHELLE'S

JUST GOING TO DONATE THIS TO THESMITHSONIAN. A DRESS LIKE

THIS IS A THOROUGHBRED, OKAY --YOU GOT TO LET IT OUT TO RUN!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)>> Jon: I'M AFRAID TO ASK THIS,

JASON, BUT WHERE ARE YOURACTUAL CLOTHES?

>> OH, NO IDEA, JON, OKAY?

THESE NO POTUS PARTIES THESECRET SERVICE THROWS ARE CRAZY!

>> Jon: NOW THAT THEY'RE BACK ONLOCKDOWN AT THE WHITE HOUSE, HOW

ARE YOU PLANNING ON GETTING OUTIN THAT, YES, I AGREE, BEAUTIFUL

GOWN?

>> THANK YOU. I'M NOT. KAY?

I'M JUST GOING TO LAY LOW TILL IHEAR THE ALL-CLEAR SIGN.

(LOUD MUSIC)OH [BLEEP]!

LOOKS LIKE POTUS JUST WENT TOTHE CLIMATE SUMMIT.

LET'S GET THIS WHITE HOUSE PARTYSTARTED!

THE ROOF, THE ROOF, THE ROOFCONTAINS SNIPERS.

>> Jon: THANK YOU, JASON. JASONJONES, EVERYBODY.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)>> Jon: WELCOME BACK. MY GUEST

TONIGHT IS A JOURNALIST. HERNEW BOOK IS CALLED

"THE UNDERGROUND GIRLS OFKABUL: IN SEARCH OF A HIDDEN

RESISTANCE IN AFGHANISTAN."

PLEASE WELCOME TO THEPROGRAM JENNY NORDBERG!

♪♪(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

>> Jon: HELLO!

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE!

>> THANK YOU.

>> Jon: THIS IS A FASCINATINGSTORY. AND A LOOK,

THE UNDERGROUND GIRLS OF KABUL,LOOKING FOR RESISTANCE.

ON LOOKING AT THE BOOK COVER,THE TITLE, I ASSUMED IT WAS THIS

IDEA OF SORT OF TRAFFICKINGOR YOU KNOW, WOMEN HAVING

TO HIDE FROM THE TALIBAN. IT'S AMUCH SORT OF DIFFERENT,

STRANGER AND AT TIMES EVENSADDER STORY. WHAT IS IT?

>> IT'S THE STORY OF AFGHANGIRLS WHO GROW UP AS BOYS.

THEY ARE MADE INTO BOYS.

THEY'RE DRESSED LIKE BOYS WITH ASHORT HAIRCUT AND A PAIR OF

PANTS, BY THEIR PARENTSESSENTIALLY BECAUSE BOYS ARE

WHAT COUNT IN AFGHANISTAN.AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SONS,

THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR A FAMILY,AND PARENTS THEN

WILL SOMETIMES CHOOSE TOBRING UP THE DAUGHTER AS A SON.

>> Jon: AND THEY BRING UP THEDAUGHTER AS A SON, ONE THE

SUPERSTITION THAT GETS THEM SONSAT SOME POINT?

>> THAT'S ONE REASON.>> Jon: YEAH.

>> EVERY FAMILY WILL HAVE ADIFFERENT REASON.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

AND THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON INAFGHANISTAN.

MANY TIMES IT'S ALSO TO ADDPRESTIGE TO THE FAMILY.

IT'S A DEEPLY PATRIARCHALSOCIETY.

SO A SON WILL CARRY ON THEFAMILY NAME, THE LEGACY, WILL

INHERIT THE PROPERTY, SO YOUNEED A SON TO SHOW TO THE

OUTSIDE WORLD THAT, YOU KNOW,YOU HAVE STRENGTH WITHIN

THE FAMILY AND THAT THEFAMILY ISN'T WEAK.

IT'S INCUMBENT UPON EVERY WOMANAND EVERY FAMILY IN AFGHANISTAN

TO HAVE SONS, AND THENIT WILL ALSO AFFORD MORE

FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT, FORINSTANCE, FOR LITTLE GIRLS.

MANY TIMES IN DANGEROUS AREAS,FOR INSTANCE, IT MIGHT BE

HARD FOR THEM TO GET TO SCHOOL.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> AND THEN DISGUISED AS A BOY,YOU WOULD HAVE RIGHT OF PASSAGE

IN A WAY THAT A LITTLE GIRLWOULDN'T HAVE, NORMALLY.

AND THEN THERE'S ALSO THEPRACTICAL ELEMENT.

MAYBE YOU NEED A SON TO BRING ANINCOME IN TO THE FAMILY, AND

YOU'LL DISGUISE THE GIRLTO GO OUT AND WORK IN A

STORE, FOR INSTANCE, AND SUPPORTTHE FAMILY BASICALLY.

>> Jon: AND THIS IS NOTJUS A PURELY RURAL OR OUTSIDE.

THIS IS ENDEMIC?

>> IT CUTS ACROSS, SOCIALCLASS, LEVEL OF EDUCATION,

PROVINCES, ETHNICITY,IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING

ON FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME INAFGHANISTAN AND IT'S

ESSENTIALLY A CREATIVE WAY TOBUCK THE SYSTEM IN AN IMPOSSIBLE

SOCIETY...>> Jon RIGHT.

>> WITH STRICT GENDERSEGREGATION.

YOU KNOW, MEN DO CERTAIN THINGS,WOMEN DO OTHER THINGS.

LITTLE GIRLS FROM THE TIMETHEY'RE BORN HAVE ESSENTIALLY

VERY FEW RIGHTS.

SO IT'S A WAY TO PASS OVER TOTHE OTHER SIDE.

>> Jon: AND THIS IS WHERE ITGETS REALLY TRICKY.

YOU KNOW, THIS COMES WITH ANEXPIRATION DATE.

>> IT DOES.

>> Jon: WHEN THE GIRLS REACH ALEVEL OF MATURITY OR PUBERTY,

THEY MUST GIVE UP THIS IDENTITYAND LOSE ALL THOSE RIGHTS.

>> WELL, AS MUCH AS THEY CANPLAY WITH GENDER...

>> Jon: YES.

>> IN LITTLE CHILDREN, AND IT'SKIND OF A DON'T ASK DON'T TELL.

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THIS ISGOING ON.

WHEN A GIRL ENTERS PUBERTY, SHEMUST TAKE THE TRAJECTORY OF A

TRADITIONAL AFGHAN WOMAN, WHICHIS TO GET MARRIED, HAVE

CHILDREN, IDEALLYSONS, OF HER OWN.

SO THERE'S NO REAL, YOU KNOW,DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

THEN THERE ARE, OF COURSE, THOSEWHO RESIST VERY STRONGLY BECAUSE

THEY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP ON THEOTHER SIDE, SO TO SPEAK, WITH

ALL THE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS THATARE USUALLY NOT AFFORDED GIRLS

IN AFGHANISTAN.

>> Jon: SO THIS IS A PART THATI THINK MUST BE INCREDIBLY

DIFFICULT.

YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THEDIFFICULTIES OF BEING IN A

WAR-TORN REGION, BEINGPOVERTY-STRICKEN, GOING THROUGH

PUBERTY AND LOSING ALL OFTHE FREEDOM THAT YOU

EXPERIENCED AS A BOY ANDWATCHING OTHER LITTLE BOYS GOING

THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS,ENJOYING MORE FREEDOMS, IT MUST

BE DEVASTATING IN TERMS OF THEIREMOTIONAL STATE.

>> IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICALEXPERIMENT.

IT'S A NATURE VERSUS NURTUREEXPERIMENT.

LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, IN ACONSTANT HEIGHTENED, TENSE

ATMOSPHERE OF WAR THAT'S BEENGOING ON FOR DECADES.

SO, WHEN I'VE SPOKEN TO ALL OFTHESE SUBJECTS IN MY BOOK,

FOR INSTANCE, ANDWHAT MY RESEARCH SHOWS

IS THAT MANY TIMES THEY, YOUKNOW, THERE ARE SO

MANY LAYERS OF PSYCHOLOGICALISSUES AND PROBLEMS.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> SO, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, IFYOU'VE GROWN UP AS A BOY AND A

YOUNG MAN, MANY TIMES IT CAN BEPRACTICALLY VERY DIFFICULT, YOU

KNOW, FROM A PRACTICALSTANDPOINT, BECAUSE YOU DON'T

KNOW IF YOU HAVE BEEN ON THEOTHER SIDE HOW TO GREET WOMEN,

HOW TO TALK TO WOMEN, HOW TOCOOK, HOW TO WALK LIKE A WOMAN.

>> Jon: DO THEY BELIEVE THATTHEY DESERVE TO BE PUT BACK FROM

HAVING THEIR RIGHTS?

IS THERE SOMETHING IN THEIRSOCIETY THAT HAS TAUGHT THEM,

OKAY, AT THIS POINT, YOU GO BACKTHERE AND YOU DESERVE THAT?

AND THAT'S... IS IT A LEVELLING?

>> WELL IT'S IMPORTANT TOUNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A CHOICE

BY THE PARENTS MANY TIMES.

SOME LITTLE GIRLS ARE BORN ANDINTRODUCED TO THE VILLAGE AND

THE NEIGHBORS AS THE FAMILY'SSON.

>> Jon: RIGHT.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU THINKOF AS FREE WILL AND THE RIGHT TO

CHOOSE MAY NOT BE APPLICABLEFOR THESE GIRLS.

HOWEVER, WHEN YOU'VE GROWN UPFOR 10, YOU KNOW, 13, 12, 15

YEARS -->> Jon: SURE.

>> ON THE OTHER SIDE, IT'S, YOUDO SEE THAT SOCIETY IS

SEGREGATED. LIKE ONE OFTHESE 15-YEAR-OLD GIRLS

SAID TO ME, I SEE HOWWOMEN ARE TREATED HERE,

WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE ONE OFTHEM?

I WILL REMAIN A BOY, I WANTTO REMAIN A BOY ALWAYS.

>> Jon: IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.

CAN YOU STICK AROUND FOR ASECOND?

I WANT TO FIND OUT, IN SOCIETIESTHAT UNDERGO THIS TYPE OF TUMULT

AND WAR, GENERALLY RIGHTSADVANCE, BUT AND IT HAS NOT

HAPPENED IN AFGHANISTAN AND SOMEOF THESE OTHER PATRIARCHAL

SOCIETIES. I WONDERWHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

WE'LL COME BACK, ON THE WEB.

"THE UNDERGROUND GIRLS OFKABUL," IT'S ON THE SHELVES NOW,

JENNY NORDBERG.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)>> Jon: THAT'S OUR SHOW.

JOIN US TOMORROW NIGHT AT 11:00.HERE IT IS, YOUR MOMENT OF ZEN.

>> I COULDN'T HELP BUTLET MY MIND JUST TO FLOW TO

SOMETHING ELSE, ANOTHERASSET THAT WE DIDN'T

PROTECT.

THE U.S. OUTPOST IN BENGHAZI,LIBYA.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT THISIS A TREND BUT SMELLS LIKE IT.

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