March 6, 2014 - Kimberly Marten

  • Episode: 19074
  • (0)

Vladimir Putin embraces his own geopolitical propaganda, Aasif Mandvi discovers third world health care in America, and Kimberly Marten discusses the growing Crimean crisis.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)HEY, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO

THE DAILY SHOW, MY NAME ISJON STEWART, MY GUEST

TONIGHT BARNARD COLLEGEPROFESSOR KIMBERLY MARTEN.

SHE IS AN EXPERT ON RUSSIANPOLITICS WITH JUST A

SUBSPECIALTY OF BEINGINCREDIBLY BUSY THESE DAYS, IN

FACT WE'RE GOING TO GETRIGHT TO THE GROWING CRISIS

OVERSEAS, CRIMEAN WAR 2UKRAINIAN BOOGALOO.

LISTEN.

AFTER A WEEK OF LETTING HISTROOP MOVEMENTS DO THE

TALKING, RUSSIAN STRONGMANVLADIMIR PUTIN SAT DOWN

TUESDAY WITH HIS COUNTRY'SOFF CENSORED MEDIA TO

EXPLAIN HIMSELF.

>> THIS IS WHAT I WOULD LIKETO SUGGEST.

LET'S HAVE A CONVERSATIONRATHER THAN AN INTERVIEW.

>> Jon: YOU KNOW WHAT I DIDNOT SEE THAT COMING.

A CONVERSATION, A RAPSESSION.

I NEVER SAW PUTIN AS THECOOL DAD.

SOMEBODY WHO WOULD PULL UP ACHAIR, FLIP AROUND, PUT ON A

BASEBALL HAT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT POT AND JERKINGOFF.

BUT IT'S A PLEASANT SURPRISE,LET'S GET TO THE

CONVERSATION.

>> I WOULD ASK YOU TO BEGINBY STATING ALL YOUR

QUESTIONS.

I WILL JOT THEM DOWN AND TRYTO ANSWER THEM.

FINE.

LET US STOP HERE FOR NOW.

I WILL BEGIN, DON'TINTERRUPT ME.

(LAUGHTER)>> Jon: I FORGOT AN

INTERESTING FACT.

IN RUSSIA THE WORD FORCONVERSATION IS THE SAME

WORD AS THE WORD FOR SHUTTHE [BLEEP] UP.

LET ME TALK.

FIRST THING'SFIRST, YOU LIKE THAT, BIG

VLADY?

FIRST THING'S FIRST.

ALRIGHT, VLADIMIR, ARETHERE RUSSIAN TROOPS IN THE

UKRAINE?

>> THOSE ARE LOCALSELF-DEFENSE UNITS.

ABOUT THE USE OF MILITARY,THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS SO

FAR.

THIS IS VERY INTERESTING.

HAVE YOU MENTIONED TO THESELOCAL SELF-DEFENSE UNITS

THAT THEY ARE NOT FROMRUSSIA, BECAUSE --

>> I AM A RUSSIAN SOLDIER.

>> I SHOULD HAVE LET HIMFINISH.

I AM RUSSIAN SOLDIER.

IN DREAM YOU ARE HAVING.

(LAUGHTER)WHEN YOU WAKE UP, THERE WILL

BE NO MEMORY OF THIS.

COME ON, VLADIMIR.

>> VLADIMIR, VLADIMIR PUTIN.

THE SOLDIERS ARE SAYING THEYARE FROM RUSSIA.

THEY ARE SPEAKING RUSSIAN,THEY'RE WEARING RUSSIAN ARMY

UNIFORMS, KIND OF.

>> WELL, LOOK AT THE FORMERSOVIET REPUBLICS.

BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OFUNIFORMS THAT LOOK LIKE

THEM.

YOU CAN GO TO A STORE ANDBUY A UNIFORM.

(LAUGHTER)>> Jon: RIGHT, BUT I'M NOT

SURE YOU CAN GO TO THE STOREAND BUY TEN THOUSAND OF

THEM.

OR HAVE THAT STORE THROW INSOME RUSSIAN TANKS!

OR ARE THOSE JUST PART OFCRIMEA'S NEW CITI TANK

PROGRAM.

PEOPLE WANT TO GET AROUND,THEY GO IN, THEY DO A THING.

(APPLAUSE)THIS HAS BEEN QUITE AN

ENLIGHTENING CONVERSATIONWITH VLADIMIR PUTIN.

AND WHILE PRESIDENT PUTINSEEMS TO BE CHANNELING JON

LOVITZ'S CHARACTER FROM SNL,YEAH, YEAH, CRIMEA, YEAH,

WE'RE NOT IN CRIMEA, THAT'STHE TICKET, YEAH, PERHAPS

THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE GOINGON HERE.

>> GERMANY ANGELA MERKELTOLD PRESIDENT OBAMA SUNDAY

NIGHT THAT AFTER SPEAKING TOPUTIN SHE DIDN'T THINK HE

WAS IN TOUCH WITH REALITYSAYING PUTIN WAS IN ANOTHER

WORLD.

>> Jon: AND THAT BRINGS USTO THE SECOND PORTION OF OUR

HEADLINE.

MUCH OF THE WORLD NOW SEESPUTIN FOR WHAT HE IS, A SEMI

DELUSIONAL AUTOCRAT WHOVIEWS THE DISSOLUTION OF THE

SOVIET UNION AS ONE OF THEGREATEST TRAGEDIES OF THE

LATE 20TH CENTURY AND HASCONFUSED HIS OWNS GEO

POLITICAL PROPAGANDA FORREALITY.

WHO WOULD BE FOOLED BY THISGUY'S [BLEEP].

>> RUSSIA HAS A REAL LEADER.

AND OUR PRESIDENT JUSTIS-- IS INCAPABLE AND

UNWILLING TO LEAD.

>> IN A WAY, YOU GOT TO HANDIT TO PUTIN.

HE KNOWS THE WEST IS WEAK.

>> PUTIN DECIDE WHAT HE WANTSTO DO.

AND HE DOES IT IN HALF ADAY.

HE MAKES A DECISION AND HEEXECUTES IT.

QUICKLY, THEN EVERYBODYREACTS THAT IS WHAT YOU CALL

A LEADER.

>> Jon: THAT IS NOT WHAT YOUCALL A LEADER.

MAKE THE QUICK DECISION ANDEVERYBODY REACTS?

THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL ATODDLER.

(LAUGHTER)HONESTLY.

I GOT TO TELL YOU.

THE WEIRDEST THING ABOUTTHIS ISN'T PUTIN INVADING

UKRAINE.

YOU EXPECT A CRAZY GUY TOACT CRAZY.

THE WEIRDEST THING IS SEEINGCONSERVATIVES IN OUR COUNTRY

POINT AT THE CRAZY GUY ANDGO I'LL HAVE WHAT THEY'RE

HAVING.

PUTIN LIKES TO HANG OUT WITHHIS SHIRT OFF.

OBAMA WEARS MOM JEANS, PUTINTELLS THE WEST IF YOU MESS

WITH ME I WILL KILL YOU ALL.

>> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING ATPUTIN AS ONE WHO WRESTLES

BEARS AND DRILLS FOR OIL.

THEY LOOK AT OUR PRESIDENTAS ONE WHO WEARS MOM JEANS

AND EQUIVOCATES.

>> THIS IS A GUY THATWRESTLES TIGERS WHILE THE

PRESIDENT WEARS MOM PANTS.

>> Jon: WHAT A GREAT TALKINGPOINT THAT MOM JEANS TURNED

OUT TO BE.

HERE'S THE THING YOU GOT TOREMEMBER.

PUTIN DOESN'T ACTUALLYWRESTLE BEARS AND TIGERS.

THAT'S PROPAGANDA.

HE DID ONCE SHOOT A TIGER.

BUT ONLY AFTER THAT TIGERHAD BEEN PRETRANQUILIZED AND

TRAPPED IN A SNARE FOR HIM.

FOR GOD'S SAKES, HOW INONE 24 NEWS CYCLE DO YOU

UPGRADE PUTIN FROM WRESTLINGBEARS TO TIGERS ANYHOW, BYTOMORROW

IT WILL BE PUTIN ONCE SNAPPEDTHE TEETH OUT OF A GREAT WHITESHARK

AND MADE HIM BLOW HIM WHILEOBAMA SAT THERE WRISTFULLY

WEARING CAPRI PANTS AND ABABY BONNETT.

YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THERE ISSOMETHING RIDICULOUS ABOUT A

MIDDLE-AGED WORLD LEADERRIDING AROUND SHIRTLESS ON A

HORSE LIKE CONAN THEBARBARIAN AFTER A DOZEN

DONUTS.

WHO THINKS THIS LOOKS GOOD?

>> IT'S LIKE THEY WANT OBAMATO SEEM WEAK TO THE RUSSIAN

PEOPLE.

THEY DON'T RESPECT WEAKNESS.

>> PUTIN, BIG, STRONG,MUSCULAR ON A HORSE.

>> Jon: BIG, STRONG,MUSCULAR ON A HORSE THAT IS

AN IMAGE THAT LOOKS LIKE ITSHOULD BE AIR BRUSHED ON TO

THE SIDE OF A VAN IN A NEWJERSEY REST AREA.

(LAUGHTER)I HAVE BEEN TO THAT REST

AREA.

IT'S NICE.

BUT FINE, YOU WANT OBAMA TOBE MORE LIKE PUTIN.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF OBAMADID ACT A BIT MORE

AUTHORITARIAN.

>> DID PRESIDENT OBAMA MISSTHE CLASS ABOUT THE THREE

EQUAL BRANCHES OFGOVERNMENT.

>> DOESN'T HE ACT MORE LIKEKING THAN PRESIDENT.

>> HE'S NOT THE KING.

>> EMPEROR OBAMA DOES WHATHE WANTS TO DO.

>> AN IMPERIAL PRESIDENTSHREDDING THE CONSTITUTION.

>> HE GUTTED THECONSTITUTION WITH OBAMA

CARE.

>> SHOVED DOWN THE THROATSOF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> THAT'S A FORM OF TYRANNY.

>> THOSE ARE THE ACTIONS OFA DICTATOR.

>> BARACK OBAMA NEEDS TO BEREMINDED HE IS NOT A

DICTATOR.

>> Jon: FASCINATING.

LET ME SEE IF I HAVE THISSTRAIGHT.

OBAMA IS A WEAK, MOM JEANSWEARING DICTATOR KING!

WEAK, WEAK MOM JEANS, TYRANTS,OF THE WORST TYRANTS OF ALL.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITHTHESE PEOPLE.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THESEPEOPLE AS CHILDREN.

THAT HAS ENABLED THISLOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH

AUTHORITARIAN FIGURES ANDTHE INHERENT COGNITIVE

DISSONANCE THAT GOESALONG WITH SUCH A SCHISM.

YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKINGABOUT FOX CONTRIBUTOR RALPHPETERS

>> IT IS FUNNY, PUTINACTUALLY REMINDED ME IN A

PECULIAR WAY OF MY MOTHER.

(LAUGHTER)>> Jon: GO ON.

>> MY MOTHER HAS A BRILLIANT,UNCANNY ABILITY TO MEET

SOMEONE AND WITHIN FIVEMINUTES SHE CAN IDENTIFY

THEIR WEAKNESS.

SHE KNOWS THEIR WEAK POINTS.

(LAUGHTER)(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

>> Jon: WHO'S WEAK NOW MOTHER?

WEAK, WEAK, WEAK, WEAK.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> WELCOME BACK.

WE'VE ALL HEARD AMERICA HASTHE BEST HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM

IN THE WORLD BUT FOR HOWLONG. AASIF MANDVI HAS MORE.

>> THE U.S. HEALTHCARESYSTEM FOR AS LONG AS WE CAN

REMEMBER HAS HAD ONERESOUNDING TRUTH.

>> AMERICA HAS THE BESTHEALTH-CARE SYSTEM IN THE

WORLD.

>> THE GREATEST HEALTH CARESYSTEM IN THE WORLD.

>> THE FINEST HEALTH-CARESYSTEM IN THE WORLD.

>> BUT THAT'S ALL ABOUT TOCHANGE.

>> OBAMACARE WILL BANKRUPTOUR COUNTRY AND RUIN THE

BEST HEALTH CARE DELIVERYSYSTEM IN THE WORLD.

>> FOX BUSINESS COMMENTATORTODD WILEMAN.

>> THE U.S. HEALTHCARESYSTEM IS THE BEST IN THE

WORLD BUT NOW WITH OBAMACARE,YOU KNOW, OUR CHOICES HAVE

BEEN LIMITED.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOINGTO BE SAYING THIS COSTS MORE,

I'M GETTING LESS, I'M NOTGOING TO BE HAPPY.

WORST-CASE SCENARIO WHEREARE WE HEADING.

>> WE HAVE LONGER LINES.

YOU MIGHT HAVE TO BRING YOUROWN SHEET.

IN RUSSIA THEY REUSE SYRINGES.

THE SCENARIO WHERE WE COULDSLIP INTO THIRD WORLD STATUS

WILL BE SLOW, PROBABLY.

>> OH MY GOD, THIRD WORLDSTATUS, THAT IS LIKE THE

WORST WORLD STATUS THEREIS TO SEE HOW BAD THAT

COULD BE I TRAVELED TO AREGION RIFE WITH POVERTY.

MY GUIDE WAS STAN BROCK, FOUNDEROF REMOTE AREA MEDICAL.

>> FOR 30 YEARS BROCK ANDHIS CHARITY HAVE PARACHUTED

INTO REMOTE REGIONS OFAFRICA AND SOUTH AMERICA WITH

TEAMS OF DOCTORS WORKING TOHEAL THE POOR.

AND NOW HE WOULD SHOW MEWHAT AMERICA WILL LOOK LIKE

IN JUST A FEW YEARS.

STAN, HOW HIGH ARE WE GOINGTO GO UP?

>> YOU DON'T NEED TO SCREAMAT ME.

THE ROOF IS NOT GONE YET,WE'RE STILL ON THE GROUND.

>> OH.

OH, OKAY, YEAH, YEAH, THISIS MY FIRST TIME.

>> ANXIOUS FOR THE LONGJOURNEY AHEAD WE BUZZED OVER

AN UNFAMILIAR AND RUGGEDLANDSCAPE.

>> WHEN I ARRIVED I WASOVERWHELMED BY THE NEED.

>> DO FIND THAT THERE AREDISEASES AND THINGS,

CONDITIONS HERE YOU'RE NOT EVENFAMILIAR WITH.

DENGUE FEVER, TYPHOID, MALARIA

THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> NO THOSE AREN'T PROBLEMSTHAT WE REALLY SEE IN

KNOXVILLE.

>> YOU SAID KNOXVILLE.

>> WE'RE IN TENNESSEE.

>> TENNESSEE.

>> TENNESSEE, KNOXVILLE,TENNESSEE.

>> YES.

>> KNOXVILLE.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE LOCALSCALL THIS PLACE.

>> YES.

>> AND WHAT IS THE ENGLISHWORD FOR IT.

>> KNOXVILLE.

>> THIS IS KNOXVILLE,TENNESSEE THIS IS AMERICA.

>> OH, THAT EXPLAINS IT.

OH MY GOD, I THINK I SAW AWAFFLEHOUSE.

>> BUT IF WE WERE IN AMERICA,WHAT THE HELL WAS STAN BROCK

DOING HERE.

>> REMOTE AREA MEDICAL HAD BEENDESIGNED TO TAKE AIRBORNE

RELIEF, PARACHUTE DROPS ETCETERA TO THE THIRD WORLD AND

NOW MORE THAN 90% OF EVERYTHINGWE DO IS HERE IN

THE UNITED STATES.

>> AND IS THAT BECAUSE 90%OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION IS

AMERICAN.

>> NO, NO, WHEN I CAME TOTHIS COUNTRY I SAW THAT THERE

WAS A DESPERATE NEED, PEOPLETHAT COULDN'T AFFORD OR

DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO CARE.

>> THE U.S. HEALTHCARESYSTEM IS THE BEST IN THE

WORLD, FACT.

>> IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

>> NAME FIVE OTHER COUNTRIESTHAT HAVE A BETTER

HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM THAN THEU.S.

>> MALTA, CYPRUS, FRANCE,SWITZERLAND, JAPAN,

AUSTRALIA, GREAT BRITAIN.

>> ALL RIGHT, YOU NAMED LIKESEVEN.

>> YEAH.

>> AND I SAID NAME FIVE, SOYOU LOSE.

OKAY, SO MAYBE WE'RE NOT THEFIRST BEST OR SECOND-BEST,

BUT AT LEAST WE'RE IN THETOP-- 37th.

WHATEVER.

IN YOUR FACE, SLOVENIA.

I JUST CAME BACK FROM APLACE WITH SHOCKINGLY POOR

HEALTH CARE CONDITIONS.

THEY'RE STILL REELING FROMTHE LOSS OF THE CIVIL WAR.

A QUARTER OF THE YOUNGPEOPLE ARE LIVING IN POVERTY.

THEY HAVE HIGH RATES OFCANCER.

HEART DISEASE.

>> THIS IS HOW BAD IT COULDGET, SURE, YEAH, IF WE KEEP

GOING DOWN THE PATH OF MOREGOVERNMENT CONTROL, LESS

INNOVATION.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE COULD BETHAT PLACE UNLESS GREAT

CATASTROPHE HAPPENS TO THISCOUNTRY.

>> I SHOULD PROBABLY MENTIONTHAT THE PLACE I'M TALKING

ABOUT IS KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE,IN AMERICA.

>> WHICH HAS THE GREATESTHEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD.

>> WHAT I-- OBVIOUSLY NOT-- YOUKNOW, YOU'RE-- YOU KNOW,

PEOPLE DO FALL THROUGH THECRACKS.

>> AND FROM WHAT I SAW THOSEARE SOME PRETTY BIG [BLEEP]

CRACKS.

SO THE WORSE CASE SCENARIOFOR OBAMACARE IS THAT IT

GETS US TO A PLACE WHERE WEALREADY ARE?

SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW WHENYOU'RE SICK.

>> YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GETTHE CARE.

IT'S GOING TO BE NOT-- NOTGOOD.

NOT SO MUCH NOT GOOD, IT'S NOTGOING TO BE WHAT

EVERYONE ELSE IS GETTING.

>> EVERYBODY ELSE GETS IT,IT'S GOING TO BE --

>> [BLEEP].

>> IT'S-- THEY ALL GET THESAME LEVEL OF HEALTH CARE

BUT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TOWAIT FOR IT.

>> IT'S THE SAME TREATMENT,YOU JUST MIGHT GET THAT

TREATMENT AFTER YOU HAVEALREADY DIED.

>> NO.

SOME PEOPLE GET GREAT HEALTHCARE AND SOME PEOPLE JUST

GET GOOD HEALTH CARE.

>> BUT WHAT IF EVERYBODY GOTREALLY GREAT HEALTH CARE.

I'M JUST KIDDING, WE HAVETO KEEP THINGS COMPETITIVE,

RIGHT?

>> YES!

>> SEE, EVERYONE GETS CARE.

IT'S JUST SOME HAVE TO WAITFOR IT.

TO BE CHOPPERED IN WITH ATRIAGE UNIT.

BUT THAT'S THEIR CHOICE.

>> NOT ALL OF THEM CANNOTAFFORD HEALTH CARE.

THEY MADE THAT CHOICE TO GOBARE.

>> BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORDIT.

>> BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANTTO PAY FOR IT.

>> WELL, BECAUSE THEY CAN'TAFFORD IT.

>> PEOPLE LIKE A FREE LUNCH.

AND I WILL BE HONEST, IF YOUARE POOR, STOP BEING POOR,

YOU KNOW, GET A GED, HAVE AJOB FOR OVER A YEAR.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> SO IF YOU ARE POOR,JUST STOP BEING POOR.

>> THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

>> IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

JUST NO ONE TELL SLOVENIA.

>> Jon: WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> WELCOME BACK, MY GUESTTONIGHT, SHE IS A POLITICAL

SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT BARNARDCOLLEGE COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY,

SHE HAS BEEN WRITING ABOUTTHE CRISIS IN UKRAINE FROM

FOREIGN AFFAIRS MAGAZINE,PLEASE WELCOME KIMBERLY

MARTIN.

HELLO.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE,FOR SOMEONE WHO STUDIES THIS

REGION, THIS MUST BEHORRIFYING AND EXCITING AT

THE SAME TIME.

>> WHEN THINGS GET BAD THERETHEY GET GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHO

STUDY IT.

>> Jon: GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHOSTUDY IT.

>> YEAH.

>> Jon: HERE'S WHAT I KNOWABOUT THE SITUATION.

PUTIN HAS WON.

HE HAS THROUGH SHREWDLEADERSHIP AND A CERTAIN

AMOUNT OF SENSITIVITY OFNIPPLE, HE HAS BROUGHT THE

WEST TO ITS KNEES ANDRECONSTITUTED THE SOVIET

UNION.

HOW CORRECT AM I?

>> NO, IN FACT, THAT'SABSOLUTELY WRONG.

HE LOST AND NOBODY CANFIGURE OUT WHY HE TOOK SUCH

BIG RISK FOR SUCH LITTLEGAIN.

>> NOW THAT HE'S ANINTERESTING TAKE, THAT YOU

HAVE, WHEN YOU SAY IT'S ABIG RISK, WHAT HAS HE

RISKED?

>> WELL, IMMEDIATELY HE'SRISK THAT A GUNSHOT GOES OFF,

NOT JUST ONE THAT GETS INTOTHE SKY BUT ONE THAT IS, FOR

EXAMPLE, FIRED BY A DRUNKSOLDIER, THAT CAUSES THE

WHOLE THING TO BLOW AND UKRAINETO BE IN A CIVIL WAR

WITH RUSSIAN TROOPS THERE.

BUT MORE THAN THAT, HE HASNOW GIVEN UP THE ONE PIECE

OF POWER THAT RUSSIA REALLYHAD AFTER THE COLD WAR THAT

HAD ANY SIGNIFICANCE WHICHWAS THE VETO IN THE U.N.

SECURITY COUNCIL.

BECAUSE HE DIDN'T BOTHER TOGO TO THE U.N. BEFORE HE

DECIDED TO MAKE THISMILITARY MOVE AND THEN

NOBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVERUSSIA EVER AGAIN WHEN THEY

SAY BUT YOU HAVE TO GO TOTHE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL

FIRST.

>> AW.

BUT LET ME TELL YOU THIS,THEY ARE NOT THERE

MILITARILY.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT, YEAH.

>> Jon: YOU CAN GO OUT ANDBUY RUSSIAN MILITARY

UNIFORMS.

>> YES, YES, SO I'VE HEARD.

>> Jon: AND YOU CAN LEARNRUSSIAN VERY QUICKLY IF YOU

WANT TO.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> Jon: THIS IS COMPLICATEDFOR NOT JUST RUSSIA BECAUSE

YOU TALK ABOUT PUTIN HASGIVEN UP THE MORAL GROUND IF

HE INDEED HAD ANY.

HOW TOUGH IS IT FOR US TOSAY LET'S SAY PUTIN WANTS TO

TURN IT AROUND ON US AND SAY

I ONLY WENT IN TO CRIMEABECAUSE THIS IS A REGION

THAT WANTS TO BE PART OF THERUSSIAN FEDERATION.

WANTS TO BE INDEPENDENT,LIKE YOU WENT INTO IRAQ, WE

ARE MERELY SPREADINGDEMOCRACY IN THIS REGION.

>> WELL, THERE IS APROCEDURE THAT SHOULD BE

FOLLOWED THROUGHINTERNATIONAL LAW AND, IN

FACT, UKRAINE HAD ALREADYPLANNED THAT IT WAS GOING TO

HAVE A DISCUSSION OFCHANGING THE AUTONOMOUS

STATUS OF CRIMEA AFTER THEMAY ELECTIONS THAT WERE

COMING UP.

THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT ISACTUALLY RELATIVELY A

DEMOCRACY.

THEY DIDN'T QUITE FOLLOW THEPROCEDURES CONSTITUTIONALLY

WHEN THEY GOT RID OFYANUKOVYCH, THE OLD LEADER

BUT THE WAY THEY PUT INPLACE THE NEW LEADERSHIP WAS

BY A MAJORITY VOTE OF APARLIAMENT THAT WAS ELECTED

IN AN ELECTION.

AND SO UKRAINE IS ALREADY ADEMOCRACY.

>> DOES THAT COMPLICATEUKRAINE'S OPTIONS HERE IF

CRIMEA SAYS WE HAVE THROUGHA POPULAR UPRISING

OVERTHROWN THE UKRAINIANLEADERSHIP AND CHOSEN TO BE

PART OF THE RUSSIANFEDERATION, DOES UKRAINE

HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON WHENTHEY SAY BUT THAT'S NOT

CONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE THEYJUST DID A SIMILAR MANEUVER.

>> BUT THERE IS ADIFFERENCE.

BECAUSE WHAT CRIMEA DID ATTHE POINT THAT THE RUSSIANS

HAD STARTED GOING IN WAS TOREPLACE THEIR LEADERSHIP

WITH A NEW LEADER SO THATPART WAS PARALLEL TO WHAT

HAD HAPPENED IN KIEV AND THEMAJOR PART OF UKRAINE.

BUT THE IDEA OF JUSTBREAKING AWAY AS A PROVINCE

GOING OFF ON ITS OWN,THAT-- THAT IS NOT IN ANY

KIND OF INTERNATIONAL LEGALFRAMEWORK THAT HAS TO COME

WITH THE PERMISSION, THEDISCUSSION OF THE ENTIRE

POPULATION OF UKRAINE, NOTJUST THE PROVINCE BY ITSELF.

>> HOW COMPLICATED WOULD IT BEIF YOU HELD THAT DISCUSSION

WITH THE ENTIRE PROVINCE.

BECAUSE I KNOW LISTEN, I'MSURE THE KURDS ARE WATCHING

THIS AND THINKING I DIDN'TKNOW YOU COULD DO THAT.

I WAS-- I-- IN IRAQ, PART OFTURKEY THERE ARE MANY

REGIONS WHERE THERE IS AMAJORITY POPULATION, PERHAPS

NOT IN CONTROL POLITICALLYTHAT WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH

THEIR AUTONOMY ETHNICALLY.

>> BUT YOU KNOW, ONLY 58% OFTHE PEOPLE IN CRIMEA ARE

ETHNICALLY RUSSIAN OR SO WETHINK FROM THE 2001 CENSUS.

THERE IS A BIG MINORITY OFCRIMEAN TATARS-- WHO WEREREALLY

JUST FACED TERRIBLEPERSECUTION THROUGHOUT THE

SOVIET PERIOD, NOW HAVE-- .

>> Jon: SO NOT -- THEY ARENOT NEUTRAL TOWARDS RUSSIA,

THEY ARE-- THEY ARE ACTIVELYHOSTILE.

>> FRIGHTENED OF RUSSIA.

AND THEY HAVE EXPLICITLYSAID THEY HAVE THEIR OWN

FORM OF A LITTLE INFORMALDEMOCRATIC GROUP THAT GETS

TOGETHER AND MEETS. AND THEY'VE

SAID IN THIS GROUPING THEYSUPPORT UKRAINE AND THEY

WANT UKRAINE AND THE ENTIREPOPULATION OF UKRAINE TO BE

INVOLVED IN THIS DECISION.

>> Jon: I UNDERSTAND, YOUKNOW, LOOK, RUSSIA DID THIS

IN GEORGIA.

BUT GEORGIA IS NOWHERE NEARTHE MILITARY OF THE UKRAINE.

I MEAN UKRAINE IS ANENORMOUS COUNTRY IN AND OF

ITSELF WITH A VERY WELLESTABLISHED MILITARY.

>> YES.

THE MILITARY IN UKRAINE ISNOT AS STRONG AS WE MIGHT

LIKE IT TO BE.

BUT THEY'VE CERTAINLYCOOPERATED WITH THE U.S. AND

NATO ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'REHOLDING.

AND THAT'S THE ONE REALLYPOSITIVE THING THAT GIVES

STABILITY IN THIS SITUATION.

BUT THE GROUND FORCES ARESTILL HOLDING THAT LITTLE

PIECE OF LAND THAT CONNECTSCRIMEA TO THE REST OF

UKRAINE.

WHEN THAT NAVAL COMMANDERSAID HE WAS DEFECTING TO THE

CRIMEAN SIDE NONE OF THEOFFICERS WENT WITH HIM.

WHEN RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS TRYTO GO FROM THE CRIMEAN PART OF

THE COUNTRY INTO THE REST OFUKRAINE, THEY WERE STOPPED

BY THE UKRAINIAN AIR FORCE,SO FAR THAT MEANS IT IS A

CONTAINED PROBLEM.

>> Jon: SO BASICALLY PUTINHAS WON AND THE WEST IS

WEAK.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

WILL YOU STICK AND FOR ALITTLE BIT.

WE'LL TALK BRIEFLY MORE, ACOUPLE OF THINGS I WANTED TO

ASK YOU.

KIMBERLY MARTIN.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW, HERE IT ISYOUR MOMENT OF ZEN.

>> IT'S CLEAR TO ME THATPUTIN NOT ONLY HAS THE UPPER

HAND FROM A TO Z, BUT HE'SENJOYING HIMSELF.

PUTIN IS THE BIG BAD RUSSIANWOLF AND OBAMA IS A BUNNY

RABBIT.

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