April 18, 2013 - Mark Mazzetti

  • Episode: 18088
  • (0)

The Senate fails once again, John Oliver proves that gun control actually does work, and Mark Mazzetti sheds light on the CIA's secret wars.

>> HELLO.

THANK YOU!

YOU'RE HAVING KIND.

WELCOME THE "DAILY SHOW."

MY NAME IS JON STEWART.

WE HAVE A FINE PROGRAM.

MAZ, AUTHOR OF "THE WAY OF THE

KNIFE," STUNY EXPOAS A ON OUR

NATION'S TOP SPIES, CHEF.

AS YOU KNOW, THIS COUNTRY HAS

SUFFERED.

AND OF COURSE THE CONTINUING

SCOURGE OF GUN VIOLENCE.

ALONG WITH THE TERRIBLE STORIES

ARE SOME UPLIFTING STORIES OF SO

MANY HEROS THAT HAVE EMERGED

FROM THESE TRAGEDIES SO WE CAN

TAKE SOLACE THAT THOSE PEOPLE

ARE OUT THERE AND THAT OUR

NATION'S LEADERS ARE ALSO ON THE

CASE.

>> ON WEDNESDAY, THE SENATE

BLOCKED THE MOST FAR-REACHING

GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION IN TWO

DECADES.

>> Jon: I'M SORRY, DID I

SAY ON THE CASE?

I MEAN KILL MY SOUL.

>> SENATORS VOTED DOWN AN SWP

BAN.

>> AND AGAINST A BAN ON

HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINE.

>> THE U.S. SENATE HAS VOTED

DOWN THE COMPROMISE DEAL ON

EXPANDED BACKGROUND CHECKS.

THE VOTE WAS 54 FOR THE EXTENDED

BACKGROUND CHECKS, 46 AGAINST.

( LAUGHTER )

>> Jon: AS TO THAT LAST

ONE, EXPANDING BACKGROUND CHECKS

TO COVER GUN SHOWS AND INTERNET

SALES.

ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE

COULD TAKE SOMETHING THAT HAS

86% SUPPORT OF ALL AMERICANS AND

AN EIGHT-VOTE MAJORITY IN THE

SENATE ITSELF AS A NO.

THAT'S A NO.

DID THESE ( BLEEP )-- I THINK

THAT'S TRADEMARKED BY DELTA

GAMMA.

( LAUGHTER ).

DID-- REALLY?

YOU ALREADY READ-- GOTTA TELL

YOU.

THE THE INTERNET MOVES FAST!

( LAUGHTER )

DID THESE GUYS PASS ANYTHING OF

SUBSTANCE?

>> THIS AMENDMENT WILL ENSURE

THAT GUN OWNERS ACROSS THE

NATION DO NOT HAVE THEIR PRIVATE

GUN OWNER INFORMATION PUBLICLY

RELEASED.

>> THE YAYS ARE 67, THE NAYS ARE

30.

THE AMENDMENT IS AGREESED TO.

>> Jon: WE CAN'T PUBLISH

WITH GUN

WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH MY

NEW MAGAZINE "GUNS & ADDRESSES"?

( LAUGHTER )

LOOK, AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH

THAT PROVISION, IT TURNS OUT THE

ONLY AMENDMENT WE'VE WITHIN ABLE

TO CONTRADICT IS OF IN THE

POST-NEWTOWN WORLD IS THE FIRST.

>> I FIND IT SO INCREDIBLY

IRONIC THAT ITS PROPONENTS

THINKS THESE WEAPONS ARE A

PROBLEM IN THE HANDS OF

LAW-ABIEGD CITIZENS, BUT

APPARENTLY SEE NO PROBLEM WITH

THE SAME WEAPONS BEING

GALORIFIED IN HOLLYWOOD MOVIES

OR VIDEO GAMES, WHERE THE GAME

IS INTERACTIVE, VIOLENT, AND YOU

ARE LITERALLY SHOOTING AT

PEOPLE.

>> Jon: THAT'S ONE, VIDEO

GAMES YOU ARE NOT LITERALLY

SHOOTING AT PEOPLE.

( LAUGHTER )

WHAT YOU'RE SHOOTING IT ISAISE

SERIES OF 0s AND 1s

ORGANIZED INTO A TWO-DIMENSION

STALL REPRESENTATION OF A

THREE-DIMENSIONAL-- I GUESS I'M

NOT CONSIDERING THE REAL-WORLD

CONSEQUENCES OF CHECKING TO SEE

IF SOMEONE BUYING A GUN ON THE

INTERNET IS A CONVICTED FELON

WHO MODERATES A CHARLIE MANSON

MESSAGE BOARD.

"HEY, GUYS, LET'S NOT GET OFF

TOPIC.

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT 'LIVE

WITH KELLY AND MICHAEL' THAT'S A

DIFFERENT BOARD.

YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE

CONVERSATION HERE MANSON

RELATED."

>> IN MY OPINION, ADOPTING

MANDATORY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR PURELY

PRIVATE TRANSACTIONS BETWEEN LAW

ABIDING CITIZENS PUTS INEXORABLY

ON THE PATH FOR A ITSELF

REGISTRATION.

>> IT IS NOT CURRENTLY PROPOSED

BUT IF THE BILL BEING CONSIDERED

WERE ADOPTED, IT WOULD PUTTOUS

THAT PATH.

>> Jon: WHAT ABOUT THE PATH

WE ARE ACTUALLY ON NOW?

I BELIEVE IT'S AT THE CORNER OF

CARNAGE ROAD AND BANG-BANG

BOULEVARD.

YOU'RE SAYING WE CAN'T TURN OFF

BECAUSE THE EXIT RAMP MIGHT

MERGE INTO A GOVERNMENT REGISTRY

OFF RAMP THAT COULD, IF YOU GO

FAR ENOUGH DOWN AND ON, I DON'T

KNOW, STALIN AVENUE OR HITLER

WAY, OR WORSE THE L.I.E., WHICH

REALLY, REALLY IS BAD?

BUT NOTHING EMBODIED YESTERDAY'S

CYNICAL EXERCISE IN DISINGENUOUS

DEBATE MORE THAN THIS NEXT LINE

OF ARGUMENT.

>> I BELIEVE WE SHOULD NOT

RESTRICT TRANSACTIONS BETWEEN

LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, ESPECIALLY

WHEN WE WILL NOT PREVENT SUCH

TRANSACTIONS BETWEEN CRIMINALS.

>> WE OUGHT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE

CAN'T LEGISLATOR AWAY THE EVIL

THAT IS ABOUT US.

>> PEOPLE WHO STEAL GUNS DO NOT

SUBMIT TO BACKGROUND CHECKS.

>> Jon: RIGHT!

BUT PEOPLE WHO STEAL GUNS DO NOT

SUBMIT TO OUR RULES ABOUT

STEALING.

( LAUGHTER ).

BUT WE STILL HAVE THEM.

( LAUGHTER )

HERE'S WHAT'S SO CRAZY ABOUT

THIS--

( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )

THE PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY, THE

PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY WHO SPEND

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO GET

ELECTED TO A LEGISLATIVE BODY

KNOWN AS THE SENATE ARE MAKING

THE ARGUMENT THERE'S REALLY NO

POINT IN MAKING LAWS BECAUSE

CRIMINALS ARE JUST GOING TO END

UP BREAKING THEM.

( LAUGHTER ).

HEY, MAN, LET ME ASK YOU A

QUESTION, TO ALL THE PEOPLE IN

THE SENATE--

( APPLAUSE )

"DO YOUR DOORS HAVE LOCKS ON

THEM?"

BECAUSE MY GUESS IS MOST

CRIMINALS DON'T GO, "OHEY,

EVERYBODY.

LOCKED."

( LAUGHTER )

AND YOU KNOW IF THESE SENATORS

WERE CONSISTENT IN THEIR

FUNDAMENTAL ASSERTION THAT EVIL

CANNOT BE LEGISLATORRED AGAINST,

I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THEM BUT I

WOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME DISDAIN

FOR THEM.

THERE ARE SITUATION WHERE'S THE

EXACT SAME PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE

WILLING TO INFRINGE UPON

CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS THROUGH

THE POWER OF LEGISLATION.

>> WE NEED NEW TECHNIQUES IN THE

WAKE OF 9/11 IN ORDER TO PROTECT

US.

>> IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE

CONTINUE TO GIVE OUR LAW

ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY EVERY TOOL

THEY NEED TO PROTECT AMERICANS.

>> THE AUTHORITY GIVEN TO THE

F.B.I. IS A NECESSARY CHANGE IN

OUR LAWS TO COMBAT THE WAR ON

TERROR.

>> THE CAPABILITIES IT NEEDED TO

DETECT AND DETER TERRORISM

INSIDE OUR BORDERS.

>> IMPORTANT TOOLS USED TO

INVESTIGATE AND PREVENT

TERRORIST ATTACKS.

>> THE PRESIDENT HAS A

RESPONSIBILITY TO USE EVERY

LEGAL MEANS AVAILABLE TO HIM TO

GET INTELLIGENCE THAT HE CAN USE

TO PROTECT AMERICAN LIVES.

>> Jon: I THOUGHT THAT WAS

THE WHOLE POINT.

BUT I GUESS TERROR IS DIFFERENT.

TERRORISM HAS BEEN A MUCH

GREATER THREAT TO AMERICAN

SAFETY OVER ALL THESE YEARS.

>> IN THE LAST 30 YEARS THERE

HAVE BEEN 30,000 TO 40,000 GUN

DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER

PER YEAR.

SINCE 19 BE 70 THERE HAVE BEEN

3400 TERROR FATALITIES.

>> Jon: HOLY.

WELL, THANK GOD FOR CHRIS HAYES

BECAUSE I'M NOT GOOD AT MATH.

I'M SO STUPID I STILL THINK 54

VOTES IS MORE THAN 46.

I'M AN IDIOT.

BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT A

MILLION IS MORE THAN 3400.

AND YET TO BATTLE THE EVIL OF

TERROR, WE STARTED TWO WARS,

TORTURED PEOPLE, REORGANIZED

ALMOST THE ENTIRE FEDERAL

GOVERNMENT, DISALLOWED THE AIR

TRAFFICKING OF SHA52 AND SHAM PEW AND

CONDITIONER, AND OKAY'D THE

ROBOT SKY KILLING OF AMERICAN

CITIZENS IF WARRANTED BY

SOMEONE.

BECAUSE ONE AMERICAN LIFE LOST

TO TERROR IS ONE TOO MANY.

WHICH I AGREE WITH.

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME WE'LL MOVE

HEAVEN AND EARTH TO DO WHATEVER

IT TAKES TO KEEP WEAPONS FROM

FALLING INTO THE HANDS OF

FOREIGNERS WHO MIGHT KILL OUR

CITIZENS BECAUSE APPARENTLY WE

THINK KILLING OUR CITIZENS IS

OUR JOB.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )

>> Jon: WELCOME BACK.

FOR MORE ON THE GUN DEBATE WE

BRING YOU THE FIRST PART OF A

THREE-PART SERIES WITH JOHN

OLIVER.

>> YESTERDAY, AMERICANS WATCHED

IN SHOCK AS EVEN WATERED DOWN

GUN LEGISLATION DIE ON THE FLOOR

OF THE SENATE.

BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHERE IT

BELONGS, ACCORDING TO GUN

LOBBYIST OF THE VIRGINIA

CITIZENS DEFENSE LEAGUE.

>> THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS

SACROSANCT.

>> YOU HOLD THUP SIGN WHENEVER I

MAKE A SUGGESTION THAT YOU THINK

IS INFRINGING UPON YOUR SECOND

AMENDMENT RIGHTSES, OKAY?

>> OKAY.

>> ASSAULT WEAPON BAN.

BOOM, THERE IT IS.

INCREASED BACKGROUND CHECKS.

REALLY?

>> YES.

>> JUST FOR BACKGROUND CHECKS?

>> WE DON'T DO BACKGROUND CHECKS

FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

>> OKAY, SO LET'S JUST TRY THIS

ONE, NICE AND EASY.

>> SURE.

>> A MANDATORY ONE-HOUR WAITING

PERIOD IF YOU BUY A GUN.

>> WHY-- WHY-- ( BLEEP ).

>> UNLESS I CAN SEE A REASON.

NO, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING

THEY SUPPORT BECAUSE AT THE END

OF THE DAY, NONE OF IT WORKS.

>> EXACTLY, GUN CONTROL DOES NOT

WORK.

WHAT IF HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING,

GUN CONTROL COULD WORK-- WHICH

OBVIOUSLY IT CAN'T SO WE KNOW IT

WON'T SO THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM,

BUT WHAT IF IT DID.

>> WHEN WAS THAT?

>> AUSTRALIA.

YES, AUSTRALIA INSPECT IN 1996,

A CONSERVATIVE PRIME MINISTER

JOHN HOWARD INSTITUTED SWEEPING

GUN CONTROL LAWS FOLLOWING A

MASS SHOOTING THAT SHOCKED THE

NATION.

SO SHOULD WE BE LEARNING FROM

THIS EFFECTIVE EXAMPLE?

OF COURSE NOT.

>> I GUESS IF WE'RE GOING TO GO

TO PLANET X. AND SAY IT'S NOT

UNITED STATES, SOME OTHER

PLANET, DIFFERENT PEOPLE,

DIFFERENT EVERYTHING, I DON'T

KNOW, YEAH, YOU KNOW, BUT IN THE

REAL WORLD WITH HUMAN BEINGS

IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK, AND GUN

CONTROL ISN'T GOING TO WORK.

>> UNFORTUNATELY NOT TONAL IS

AUSTRALIA ACTUALLY IN THE REAL

WORLD.

EVEN THEIR ANINALS CAN HOIST A

WEAPON.

WHO IS RIGHT ABOUT GUN CONTROL?

THERE WAS ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND

OUT.

CONFRONT THE MAN RESPONSIBLE.

MR. PRIME MINISTER, LET'S BEGIN

IN THE FORMAL AUSTRALIAN WAY--

G-DAY.

>> HOW DO YOU DO.

>> OBVIOUSLY, GUN CONTROL

DOESN'T WORK.

IT CAN'T WORK.

IT WILL NEVER WORK.

SO WOW WAS YOUR SCHEME A

FAILURE?

>> WELL, MY SCHEME WAS NOT A

FAILURE.

WE HAD A MASSACRE AT PORT ARTHUR

17 YEARS AGO, AND THERE HAVE

BEEN NONE SINCE.

>> ZERO GUN MASS CERS.

HOLD ON.

DID GUN CONTROL ACTUALLY WORK?

>> IT STOPPED ONE THING.

THAT COULD ALSO BE A STATISTICAL

ANOMALY.

>> YEAH, IT WAS JUST MASS

SHOOTINGS DISAPPEARED.

>> THERE WERE SO FEW OF THEM,

WHOOP-DEE-DO.

>> WHOOP-DEE-DO?

>> YES THEIR SHOOTINGS ARE RARE

ANYHOW.

>> EXACTLY, THEY PROBABLY BARELY

HAD A MASSACRE BEFORE 1996.

>> THERE WERE ABOUT 13 IN THE

PREVIOUS 18 YEARS.

IN THE 18 YEARS BEFORE PORT

ARTHUR, THERE WERE 13 MASS

SHOOTINGS.

ALMOST ONE A YEAR.

>> I WAS UNAWARE THEY HAD THAT

MANY.

MASS BEING, WHAT, MORE THAN TWO

PEOPLE AT A TIME?

>> MORE THAN FOUR.

>> MORE THAN FOUR, OKAY.

>> WHOOP-DEE-DO.

>> PERHAPS THERE WERE OFFER

NON-WHOOP-DEE-DO SIDE EFFECTS.

>> THE HOMICIDE RATE INVOLVING

THE USE OF GUNS HAS DECLINED

SIGNIFICANTLY BY FACTORS OF UP

TO 50% AND 60%, AND THE

INCIDENCE OF YOUTH SUICIDES

INVOLVING GUNS HAS DECLINED

DRAMATICALLY.

>> WHOOP-DEE-( BLEEP )-DO.

SUICIDE WITH GUNS WENT DOWN,

ZERO MASS SHOOTINGS.

>> AUSTRALIA STILL HAS MURDER

RATES AND ROBBERIES LAST I

CHECKED.

>> UNLESS YOU CAN GET RID OF

100% OF CRIME, IT'S NOT WORTH

DOING AT ALL?

>> PUT IT THIS WAY, IT'S ILLEGAL

TO HAVE CRACK COCAINE ANYWHERE

IN THE UNITED STATES.

DO YOU THINK IF SOMEBODY REALLY

WANTS IT THEY CAN GET THEIR

HANDS ON CRACK COCAINE IN

AMERICA?

>> SO UNLESS WE CAN COMPLETELY

GET RID OF DRUGS, THERE'S NO

POINT IN HAVING DRUG LAWS AT

ALL.

( APPLAUSE )

>> LET ME THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A

MINUTE.

WELL, I GUESS, EFFECTIVELY IT

DOESN'T WORK.

>> YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH PHILLIP.

EVEN HIS LOGIC IS BULLETPROOF.

>> WELL, LET ME PUT IT TO YOU

THIS WAY.

THERE ARE MORE DROWN IN

BACKYARDS WHERE THEY HAVE POOLS.

IF THERE ARE NO POOLS THEY DON'T

HAVE A DROWNING IN THE BACKYARD.

THE U.S. HAS A VERY HIGH NUMBER

OF GUNS.

THEREFORE, THERE IS GOING TO BE

MORE CHANCES FOR SOMEBODY TO BE

KILLED WITH A GUN.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S MY POINT.

THE SENATE MIGHT THINK LIVING IN

A SOCIETY WITH DRAMATICALLY

REDUCED GUN VIOLENCE IS EYE

WHO-DEE-DO, AND PEOPLE IN

AUSTRALIA COULDN'T AGREE WITH

HIM MORE.

>> WHOOP-DEE-DO.

>> WHOOP-DEE-DO, MATE.

>> WHOOP-DEE-DO, WHATEVER THAT

MEANS.

>> WHOOP-DEE-( BLEEP )-DO!

>> Jon: WE'LL BE RIGHT

( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )

>> Jon: WELCOME BACK.

MY GUEST TONIGHT A PULITZER

PRIZE-WINNING CORRESPONDENT FOR

THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

HIS NEW BOOK IS CALLED "THE WAY

OF THE KNIFE: THE CIA, A SECRET

ARMY, AND A WAR AT THE ENDS OF

THE EARTH."

PLEASE WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM,

MARK MAZZETTI MAZZETTI.

HOW ARE YOU.

NICE TO SEE YOU THP THIS IS "THE

WAY OF THE KNIFE" THE C.I.A. AND

SECRET ARMY" WHICH I'M GUESSING

IS REALLY NOT SO SECRET ANYMORE.

>> NOT SO MUCH.

>> Jon: HOW DID YOU GET

ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION?

>> IT WAS HARD.

THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO

DON'T WANT TO TALK.

AND THERE WERE SOURCES THAT I

HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME WORKING

WITH OVER THE YEARS.

WHO AGREED TO TALK FOR THE BOOK.

>> Jon: DID YOU USE

ENHANCED INTERROGATION

TECHNIQUES?

>> I DIDN'T NEED TO

( LAUGHTER ).

>> Jon: THEY GAVE UP

INFORMATION JUST THROUGH

QUESTIONING?

>> YES.

>> Jon: INTERESTING.

>> YES.

( LAUGHTER ).

>> Jon: YOU HAVE A HAVE

INTERESTING STORY AT THE VERY

BEGINNING OF THE BOOK ABOUT

SOMEBODY WHO GOT IN SOME TROUBLE

OVER IN-- OVERSEAS AND WAS

REFERRED TO BY THE UNITED STATES

GOVERNMENT AS A DIPLOMAT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Jon: TURNS OUT HE'S NOT

A COME.

T.KIMLOMA

>> HE WORKED FOR THE OF C.I.A.

HE WAS A CONTRACTOR WORKING FOR

THE C.I.A., AND IN JANUARY 2011,

HE SHOT TWO PEOPLE IN PAKISTAN

ON THE STREET WHO WERE TRYING TO

ROB HIM.

AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT --

>> THE ONLY THING THAT STOPS A

BAD GUY IN PAKISTAN IS A GOOD

GUY IN PAKISTAN.

>> GUN CONTROL.

>> Jon: THERE YOU GO.

( LAUGHTER ).

>> HE ENDS UP IN JAIL.

AND WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT IS

WEEKS OF DELIBERATION BETWEEN--

INSIDE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION

ABOUT WHETHER TO OWN UP TO THE

FACT THAT HE WORKED FOR THE

C.I.A. OR CONTINUE CALLING HIM A

DIPLOMAT AND STONEWALL THE

PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT.

IN THE END, THEY DID SAY HE WAS

WORKING FOR THE C.I.A.

THERE WAS A SECRET DEAL THAT WAS

BROKERED, AND THEY GOT HIM OUT

OF THE COUNTRY IN A HURRY AFTER

ABOUT $2 MILLION WAS PAID TO THE

FAMILIES OF THE VICTIMS.

>> Jon: OH, THAT'S

INTERESTING.

SO A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY THAT

WENT THROUGH THERE.

HOW DID THE C.I.A. GAIN THIS

SORT OF INDIVIDUALIZED AUTHORITY

THAT EVEN THE DEPARTMENT OF

DEFENSE DOESN'T HAVE?

AND HOW DID WE CREATE THESE SORT

OF TWO SEPARATE SYSTEMS FOR THIS

KIND OF OVERSEAS TERROR

FIGHTING?

>> WELL, IT'S-- ONE OF THE

THINGS THEY SORT OF TALKED ABOUT

IN THE BOOK IS HOW BASICALLY THE

C.I.A. STARTED TO LOOK A WHOLE

LOT LIKE THE MILITARY AND THE

MILITARY IS LOOKING A LOT LIKE

THE C.I.A.

BASICALLY AFTER 9/11, PRESIDENT

BUSH GAVE THE C.I.A. LETHAL

AUTHORITY AND WIDE AUTHORITY TO

GO CAPTURE AND KILL PEOPLE ALL

AROUND THE GLOBE.

THIS SETS THEM OFF ON THE

BEGINNING OF SOME OF THESE

SECRET WARS, AND IT'S-- IT

STARTS OUT WITH A LOT OF

DETENTIONS AND INTERROGATIONS,

AND STARTING AROUND 2004, 2005,

THERE'S A WHOLE LOT MORE DRONE

STRIKES, TARGETED KILLINGS.

>> Jon: BECAUSE THEY FOUND

OUT ABOUT THE INTERROGATIONS AND

SAID WE SHOULD DO THAT.

>> WELL, THERE WAS A LOT OF

INTERNAL DEBATE INSIDE THE BUSH

ADMINISTRATION.

THERE WAS AN INTERNAL C.I.A.

REPORT THAT CHRONICLED SOME OF

THE ABUSES IN THE C.I.A.

PRISONS.

AND, OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF

CONGRESSIONAL SCRUTINY OF THE

PROGRAM.

AND SO AS THAT HAPPENS, THERE

WAS A NEW STRATEGY STARTED TO

EVOLVE WHERE BOTH REPUBLICANS

AND DEMOCRATS HAD BEEN CHEERING

SOME OF THE TARGETED KILLING AND

DRONE STRIKES.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS MORE

POLITICALLY PALATABLE IN A WAY.

>> Jon: AND IT WAS SECRET,

YET, SOMEHOW IN THE GIFT SHOP OF

THE C.I.A., THIS IS A SECRET

PROGRAM, WHAT WERE THEY SELLING?

>> THEY WERE SELLING GOLF SHIRT

WITH PREDATORS ON THEM.

>> Jon: PREDATOR DRONES.

>> YES.

>> Jon: EVEN THOUGH THAT

WAS A SECRET PROGRAM NO ONE WAS

SUPPOSED TO KNOW ABOUT.

>> WELL, IT'S A SECRET GIFT

SHOP.

( LAUGHTER ).

THEY DON'T JUST LET ANYONE IN

BUT THEY STILL-- YEAH.

>> Jon: I DID NOT REALIZE

THE GIFT SHOP ITSELF WAS SECRET.

>> YES.

>> Jon: WHERE DID YOU GO

THAT?

I CANNOT TELL YOU.

HOW-- HAVE THESE ALL DEVELOPED

WITH ANY OVERSIGHT?

AND IS THERE ANY CONVERSATION

BETWEEN THE D.O.D. AND C.I.A.?

YOU WRITE THAT THEY HAVE

SEPARATE KILL LISTS.

>> SO IF YOU LOOK AT YEMEN RIGHT

NOW, YOU HAVE BOTH THE PENTAGON

AND THE C.I.A. ARE RUNNING

PARALLEL DRONE WARS WITH

SEPARATE KILL LISTS, AND UNDER

DIFFERENT AUTHORITIES.

SO FOR THE-- AND THIS, ALSO,

THEY ANSWERED TO DIFFERENT PARTS

OF CONGRESS WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE

TRYING TO DO THE OVERSIGHT.

SO AN OUTSIDER AS A REPORTER

TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE

DIFFERENCE, WHY ARE THERE THESE

PARALLEL PROGRAMS IS QUITE

DIFFICULT?

>> Jon: IS IT LIKE

GLENGARRY GLENN ROSS, WHERE

THEY'RE LIKE, YOU HAVE TO KILL

MORE PEOPLE.

THE GUY WHO COMES IN SECOND GETS

STEAK KNIVES, THIRD IS FIRED.

ARE THEY COMPETING WITH EACH

OTHER?

THERE'S AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT RIGHT

NOW I THINK IN THE OBAMA

ADMINISTRATION THAT THE SYSTEM

IS WAY TOO HAPHAZARD.

AND WHAT HAS EVOLVED OVER THE

LAST 11-PLUS YEARS HAS EVOLVED

ON THE FLY, AND THEY'RE TRYING

TO WORK UP ON THE SOME SORT OF,

SORT OF RULES, TO SORT OF

DETERMINE FOR THE FUTURE, AND AS

PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID ON THIS

SHOW, WE NEED RULES TO RESTRAIN

ME, AND RESTRAIN FUTURE

PRESIDENTS FROM BEING SORT OF

SEDUCED BY SECRET WAR.

>> Jon: YEAH, THAT WAS A

SURPRISING THING WHEN HE SAID

THAT.

STICK AROUND FOR A LITTLE BIT

AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHAT

HAPPENS WITH THE C.I.A.

PROGRAMS.

"THE WAY OF THE KNIFE."

IT'S ON THE BOOK SHELVES RIGHT

NOW.

MARK MAZZETTI, EVERYBO

Captioning sponsored by

COMEDY CENTRAL

Captioned by

Media Access Group at WGBH

access.wgbh.org

>> Jon: THAT'S OUR SHOW.

JOIN US NEXT WEEK AT 11:00.

HERE IT IS YOUR MOMENT OF ZEN.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED ARE

PARENTS, PARENTS TO BE MORE

CAREFUL AND MORE REPETITIVE AT

TELLING THEIR KIDS THAT IT IS

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